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Old 21-04-2015, 05:04   #31
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Smile Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

A day sailer and a live aboard are two different animals. If you want to get more confident sailing, then a day sailer is good. But single-handing is more about how the boat is configured and equipped than size. I have an easier time sailing my 42' solo than my friend's 30 footer due to placement of sheets, winches and halyards.

A live aboard is more about being a boat mechanic. Learning systems, understanding wiring, learning to take apart and repair things rather than buy new or used. For instance several of the Perko dome lights on my boat didn't work. New they are expensive and they are hard to find used (and not all that cheap). But troubleshooting the problem down to the switch followed by a little Internet research for the proper switch - $4.99 later problem solved.

If you buy a live aboard out of the blocks then every dollar you spend in learning maintenance is a dollar you are upgrading your boat. Find a boat that is structurally sound with a solid engine that is not used up, and go for the live aboard.

Have fun and be prepared for scrapped knuckles, a sore back and bliss (maybe).
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Old 21-04-2015, 09:08   #32
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

In May 1999, I joined a YC as crew. By August, I had bought a 33 foot sloop and promptly made a load of instructive mistakes. I could have lived on that...OK, camped on that, but the logic of going straight into what was then a "mid-sized boat" was that I was learning on a vessel that would react more slowly than a little boat, would be inherently more stable, and would shrug off bad dockings with a gelcoat repair.

Going big, or biggish, allowed me to learn sailing quicker while introducing me to concepts (such as an inboard motor) than carried over to bigger boats.

This worked for me. I would add, however, that the boat I got, and am only now trying to sell, was a 1970s IOR-style racer-cruiser and was more or less a giant dinghy with a high keel weight ratio, and so the sailing was LIKE a smaller daysailer, but you could safely do it in 40 knots.
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Old 21-04-2015, 10:10   #33
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

A long time ago in a land far, far away I made a commitment to myself to build a boat (could not afford to buy one), and sail off to places with strange sounding names. I started the project in a place where others who had similar visions, but many, if not most, either never put a keel in the water, or didn't stray too far from the harbor. I should like to point out,that before cutting the first piece of wood, I had no idea how to sail, and if it weren't for Eric Hiscock's books, I wouldn't have known the difference between a sheet and a halyard, never mind standing rigging. As a matter of fact, when I completed the boat (36' ketch), I needed to take a knowledgeable person out to show me how to sail my creation.
The point I am trying to make is what you do, and/or what you invest yourself in has to do with who you are as a person, and the commitments you make with yourself. That being said, there is nothing wrong with putting your toes in the water before jumping in, but if you really think you know what you want to do, but are hesitant and would like a better understanding, you might want to do as has already been suggested, i.e., to consider chartering, club memberships, sailing with friends, etc., rather than buying any boat at this time. However, if you have a strong desire to do something, and feel you have the fortitude to see it to completion, then acquiring a liveaboard vessel may be a viable option.
As for building vs buying, I could have worked with the salary of a dishwasher for the same length of time it took me to build my boat, and at the end of the day purchased one all ready made. However, the skills I learned in building, gave me the experience with materials and tools that eventually added to my career as an engineer, not to mention being able to quickly make necessary repairs as I continued sailing. As for financing the project, it meant living very simply, and putting almost every cent I had into the boat.
As the saying goes, "the choice is yours."
Finally, some years down the road, being married then, both my wife and I left good jobs with no promises for employment, then motored to Florida with the belief that we would find work and be able to finish our boat's refit. Before doing that, we made a list of pros and cons, i.e., should we stay and finish the boat in Virginia, or head south to warmer winter weather. Logically, the answer was to keep our jobs and not move until the boat was complete. As it turned out, we followed our heart's desires, and made good our commitment to ourselves and our "dreams."
All the best.
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Old 21-04-2015, 11:11   #34
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

Learning more sailing on a small boat is smart. I strongly recommend that you race; crew for someone. Folks are always looking for crew. Racing will move your learning curve much faster than sailing on your own. After sailing for a year in the '70s (self taught) I thought I knew how to sail.......then I joined a Friday night race and finished 45 min behind the last place boat.....it was a one hour race. I have raced, cruised, lived aboard over 40 years. My racing experience has paid off every time I sail. Buy the small boat, have fun sailing, crew for someone, especially beer can races, then when you find the live aboard boat KEEP the small boat for fun day sailing. It's like having an SUV and a motorcycle.
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Old 21-04-2015, 11:32   #35
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

I was having the questions and live in Colorado with hopes of sailing the Caribbean someday. 30 years ago we owned a 24' Neptune and loved sailing, then kids came and did the power boat and jet ski thing (learned to sailboard and gave me my sailing fix in the meantime) Now wanting to fulfill our dream of getting back into sailing I was checking out Craigslist through the winter and found this 18' Renken that was in need of a little TLC and had some of the items that I felt were important like roller jib and boarding ladder, below deck with v-birth, have a port-a-potty, came with a Johnson 6HP and a nice trailer, the weight of the boat is 1200 with 450# ballast so no problem pulling it and 2' draft. As far as rigging it from the time of stopping the trailer, stepping the mast and connecting the roller jib ready to back into the water last time was under 15 minutes and feel could be done in 5 minutes. With a smaller boat we are now on a whim, going to lakes all over (big and small just for fun of checking them out) another thing is having a boat on a trailer it is easy to clean and no crud growing on the bottom and smooth and shinny as a baby's bottom. Just fun to sail and that's what learning and sailing should be FUN, When it comes to blue water time we hope to own or be happy bare boating but want to know what we are doing and be proficient. A couple of weeks ago we went to do our first regatta and afterwards we all gathered on the dock and all the big boat owners were commenting on what a cool little boat we have, think we have a keeper.
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Old 21-04-2015, 12:06   #36
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

We have a Bauer 10 that we use for our dinghy. It sails & rows very well. I recommend getting something small enough that you can keep when you get your big boat.
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Old 23-04-2015, 06:00   #37
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I have a 15 foot chrysler mutineer on a trailer. I would sail her everywhere. Whenever we went on vacation, she was on the trailer. I have sailed her across Barnegat Bay, NJ, Lake George NY, chesapeake bay, and often in a local lake. In between, I would charter in the Chesapeake, BVI, Greece, St. Lucia.

The point: if the goal is to learn how to sail, nothing beats a dinghy sailor. Especially if you go engineless. Then charter occasionally and apply what you learn on the dinghy to the bigger boats.

I currently own a hunter legend 37.5. I upgraded 3 years ago. The one benefit of having the boat on a trailer in the back yard......you can tinker on her as often as you'd like!

One day on Barnegat Bay:
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=q6odP_Pfsgo

On lake george new york:
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=NSOR7tefOwk

You can get an old mutineer trailer and all for 1,000 to 2,000 dollars. My boat was bulit in 1975.

Good luck!
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Old 23-04-2015, 06:30   #38
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

Start small! Mistakes on a small boat are a lot cheaper than mistakes on a big one. And there a WILL be mistakes . . . . A small boat is an investment in your skills, and small boat sailing will be excellent prep for large boat sailing.

How about a Catalina 22? Cheap, lots of parts available, easy to sell when ready to move up. Good sailing too, and you can most definitely overnight.

Good luck!


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Old 23-04-2015, 08:19   #39
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

Think back to your first car or your first relationship. Were you knowledgeable and experienced enough to get the right one the first time? Why would it be any different with a boat? Anything manageable (for you) sizewise and under $2-3K is equivalent the cost of 1 season sailing club membership fee and thus should be looked upon accordingly - not a loss if you have to give it away few months/years later but a cost of aprenticeship. And if you can't afford that how can you afford "a real boat"?

By "can afford" I mean either time or $$ as that's what the choice boils down to for any boat owner. Very few of us have the luxury of both.
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Old 23-04-2015, 08:29   #40
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

If we're recommending daysailors here's a beauty:
A Three-Generation Dream Boat - The Herreshoff Fish Class Sloop - PERCH - OffCenterHarbor.com
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Old 23-04-2015, 08:45   #41
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSostre View Post
Just wanted the opinion of you guys. I wanted to see who has done it and what your thoughts were. I've taken a sailing class already I just see that there are a lot of cheap daysailers out there and am wondering if it makes sense to buy that, practice and learn how to do some of the maintenance and such myself then in a year sell and get a larger vessel to live aboard on.


Sorry for any grammar or spelling errors I posted this on my phone.

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My wife and I did our research and decided to jump in feet first and just go liveaboard. We have been living aboard our first boat, a Liberty 458, in San Francisco bay for 18 months now.

We moved our startup from Australia to Silicon Valley. Living aboard has been great. Glad we didn't buy an interim boat.

San Francisco is a great area to day sail and to tweak and fine tune before we head out for a global cruise. If you're planning to go cruising buying the boat is probably cheaper overall.

My wife has lots of sailing experience, including a couple of Sydney to Hobart races and I have the engineering, fabricariin and maker background. This is a great balance of skills to have as liveaboards and frequent sailors. Life would be much more challenging and expensive if we didnt have both these skills between us.

Marina choice is also important. People talk about multi year waiting lists. In many cases marinas use the lists to keep out the time wasters and people who want cheap rent. The junk liveaboard boats that dont sail give liveaboards a bad name. We did our research and networking before hand. We ultimately chose Berkeley Marina as we have great sailing just out the breakwater, its quuirky and we all the great marine services on the east bay.

We are now looking at purchasing a couple of kayaks that we can configure as a little sailing cat. The reverse of your plan.

By all means get your bareboat quals. Join a club and sail on their boats. Its cheap and you get to try lots of boats.

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Old 23-04-2015, 09:06   #42
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
...My wife has lots of sailing experience, including a couple of Sydney to Hobart races and I have the engineering, fabricariin and maker background. This is a great balance of skills to have as liveaboards and frequent sailors. Life would be much more challenging and expensive if we didnt have both these skills between us....
That's quite different than a newbie jumping into a 45 footer head first. So your advice may not be right for 90% of the first time sailors. My personal experience after 5-6 seasons of sailing 39footer in a club was still far short to jump into ownership of that size of a boat.

But of course those who are ready and able to cast of and start cruising (or living aboard) would probably benefit more from simple club racing and cruising to hone their skills first rather than owning a smaller size vessel as a stepping stone to their cruising size boat. But how many of us can start cruising right away?
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Old 23-04-2015, 11:32   #43
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

So.... my only concerns are being able to sell it at the end. How hard would it be to sell a Catalina 22 with a trailer? Or should I just assume I won't be able to sell it?

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Old 23-04-2015, 11:49   #44
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

For me, Scout 30's advice regarding obtaining a good sailing dinghy, and then using that as a tender is an excellent idea. We obtained a "Fatty Knees" sailing dink (a Lyle Hess design) early on, well before our boat was ready, and didn't sell it until it was too small for the four of us, i.e. two adults and then two grown children. It both rowed and sailed very well.
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Old 23-04-2015, 11:49   #45
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Re: Buying a daysailor to practice on for a year before making the switch to living a

Of course you can sell it. You will have bought a used boat, right? If YOU buy a used boat, why wouldn't someone else!

Good, well maintained used boats are always in demand. I sold my Compac 19 in a day, for 20% over asking price last year. Easy.

Some other newbie will be thrilled to buy your boat.

Are you just looking for us to tell you "go ahead, dive right in and buy a big ass boat?" If so, stop asking for the advice you are seeking and ask for other advice.


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