Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-10-2018, 19:05   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

I searched this topic to no avail ~ (Been lurking here for five years ... btw)

18 yr. old boat, solid mid-displacement mod fin / skeg rudder - 45' - 2 owners - high end builder / designer (e.g. Bristol, Hood, certain Bob Perry Designs et al.)

Professionally maintained, MNO blah blah blah ... but she's been on the hard for 6 years. No survey's available per the brokers ... owners used her, went back to central US and put her up for sale.

Cosmetics: Good


Everything else? It's a crap shoot. The boat is a "valuable" boat.... but is it? Help me suss out the concerns...

This is what I have assessed:

An engine could have 800 hours on it .. but if it's been idle for SIX years? Ok, compression test. If she was put away right, she'll be ok. Survey will tell.

Sails are original: shot. Replace.. I've never seen a dacron in-mast do much better than five years. Hello?

Running rigging: shot. Assumption

Original rig: Must replace standing rigging for insurance to indemnify it ... have mast pulled and inspected.

Electronics: may work ... no idea if they do. Obviously, survey will tell .. but modern integration will most likely push them in the "nearly useless" column.

Below decks: An 11 year old water maker? dried for 6 years? yikes.

Grey water lines dry for six years? yikes.

Fridge insulation/ plates / compressor? yikes...

AGM Batteries - done

Every pump aboard that has rubber seals? operate with care ... yikes.

She's dry... not signs of leaks / intrusion.

I'm also concerned about the strain on the hull. I have to imagine those jack stands are like bed soars in a hospital patient. She's been a fish out of water for a LONG time...

So, she's got "great bones" ... but she needs half of my offered purchase price in refit - (a deal I'm good with if I can get it.)

Would you / have you ever bought a boat this size under these conditions?

I know it's a super vague question ... but, in your consideration, how does being on the hard for so long, coupled with general depreciation effect buying cost?

It's all subjective, I know .. and a boat is only as "valuable" as what someone is willing to buy it for ... I am not ever expecting to reclaim a penny of what I put into a boat ... but when "that boat" is "the one" and she's been dry for so long .... what would make you stay? What would make you RUN?

Appreciate the insights ...

S
__________________

soggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2018, 20:14   #2
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 3,240
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

6 years on the hard in Indiantown FL would be a disaster.
6 years on the hard in the Great Lakes may be a jewel in the rough.
__________________

__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2018, 23:22   #3
Marine Service Provider
 
FutureStories's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
Boat: 1970 Irwin 32'
Posts: 148
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Depends on the boat, the owners and your tolerance. But if youíre looking for a decent older monohull there are plenty out there that are being used. Especially if you donít need a sugar scoop!
__________________
PM me for a free SoldBoat report! See the sold price of any boat from YachtWorld

Happy to help other boaters, knowledge is power, don't overpay for your boat.
FutureStories is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 01:40   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,775
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Offer, contract "price subject to", escrowed deposit.

Pay for a functional buyer's survey (as opposed to a formal insurance one that might not be as thorough) focused on the structural "bones".

Instructions to stop soon as an expensive enough deal breaker is found and start with the areas most likely to reveal such.

If everything checks out on the hard, have it prepped and launched for a basic but thorough "sea trial". These costs likely yours, but that's negotiable.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 02:13   #5
Registered User
 
Sojourner's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Florence, Italy
Boat: SY Wake: 53' Amel Super Maramu
Posts: 307
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

I had a choice between a newer Amel on the hard for 3 or 4 years vs an older one used until the day we bought her.... My surveyor's opinion about things sitting around not being used is that they decay. Lots of little things you won't even think about like joker valves in the toilets will need to be replaced. A lot depends on the storage conditions/climate of course, but all in all, I'd say be careful of a boat that's been sitting for years....
__________________
3 cats, 3 queers, endless wake, endless love!
https://www.facebook.com/anendlesswake/
https://anendlesswake.com/
Sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 07:21   #6
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in New England
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,146
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

If I went into it expecting to replace everything on your list and more, doing the work myself, and still coming out slightly behind financially I might consider it. There is virtue to ripping a boat apart, getting to know every inch of it, and refitting it to your specific needs/wants and knowing it was done right.

That said, from a purely financial perspective itís always cheaper in the long run to buy a well maintained example of a boat than bringing one back from neglect. The former owner of an updated and maintained boat has absorbed all that cost.
__________________
"Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most." -Kurt Vonnegut
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 11:27   #7
MJH
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42AC
Posts: 90
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

You don't say how long this boat has been for sale or where.

I did this years ago buying a 28 year old boat that met my offshore specifications that had been neglected but with a brand new engine, 2x8D gel batteries, autopilot, some electronics, older SSB and genset, but had been on the hard 4 years. Engine and batteries were fine, autopilot and SSB were installed totally wrong, genset died and was sold along with the electronics.

I spent many years and dollars on an endless list including sails and rigging getting this boat ready for offshore...but that is boat ownership.

Make your best offer and see what happens. If he rejects your offer continue your search but keep a watch on this one. If still without a boat but this one still on the market in a few months reconsider making another offer.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
MJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 11:46   #8
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,646
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Grp on the hard is often good news.


b.
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 13:18   #9
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 51
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Currently refitting a 46’ that sat untouched/unopened boat that was med mored at a provate dock in the jungle more or less for 5 plus years.

There would be plus and minus stores wet vs dry.

None the less I would be happy to talk it over with you. Feel free to pm a number and ill give you a call.
svninkasi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 13:54   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Glen Burnie, MD
Boat: Catalina 25 TR
Posts: 14
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
I had a choice between a newer Amel on the hard for 3 or 4 years vs an older one used until the day we bought her.... My surveyor's opinion about things sitting around not being used is that they decay. Lots of little things you won't even think about like joker valves in the toilets will need to be replaced. A lot depends on the storage conditions/climate of course, but all in all, I'd say be careful of a boat that's been sitting for years....
where are you now? Just watched your new video on YouTube. Where did you get your fully enclosed red cockpit covers and side panels? Love the red, by the way.
__________________
x_HoldFast_x
'84 Catalina 25 #4520
S/V Shamrock 5
x_HoldFast_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 16:26   #11
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 2,584
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
6 years on the hard in Indiantown FL would be a disaster.
6 years on the hard in the Great Lakes may be a jewel in the rough.
I'm on the great lakes.

I bought a Cal25 (with inboard gas saildrive) that sat on the hard, neglected for 5 years. Was visually a mess when i got it. New fuel, cleaned the carb, new battery, put up the mast, bent on sail, and off I went. Essentially one long day working on the boat and I was sailing home.

Then spent around 3 weeks scrubbing, cleaning, painting, etc.

So you never know.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CAL5.JPG
Views:	131
Size:	234.3 KB
ID:	179201   Click image for larger version

Name:	CAL1.JPG
Views:	179
Size:	103.4 KB
ID:	179202  

hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 19:38   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: NY
Boat: 34+
Posts: 36
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

I do have valuable insight with my own boat, which sat on the hard for twelve years with almost no care from me. She was badly damaged in a storm and with other things going on in my life (no details here) I came back to her recently and ploughed money in to get her fixed. So, twelve years of delayed (i.e. zero) maintenance and now it's time to get everything back to normal. So, lessons learned:


1) Replace all halyards
2) Marine electronics is an oxymoron. Expect trouble.
3) Wiring will need work. Even if it works now, it's just about to fail.
4) GPS has come a long way. Don't worry about old electronics.
5) There will be leaks. A survey will show issues with water in the structure.
6) Sails not in use tend to not deteriorate. If they are tired, so be it.
7) Topsides respond well to a good compound and wax.
8) Roller furlers, dodgers, winches etc are expensive! Make sure you get what you need.
9) Diesel engines are tough!! If it runs it is probably OK. Get an oil analysis.


To date my boat is basically back from the grave and I did a three week cruise this summer with a few issues that were able to be tackled while we were away. I'm pretty handy and had a lot of tools with me but maybe if you start small you can work up to bigger trips.


But, why look for a boat that's been layed up? There's sooo many cheap boats out there with motivated sellers.
2savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 21:03   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Thanks everyone! I'm less concerned about the boat having been laid up for so long (North Eastern US) and more convinced about the work ahead if I get her.

And yes, there are a ton of boats with motivated sellers - I just happen to really like this boat... it ticks 90% of the boxes... but when a seller doesn't budge on the price for 6 years they're never going to. Onward.

I'll keep looking - thanks SO MUCH for the input.
soggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2018, 23:38   #14
Registered User
 
Sojourner's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Florence, Italy
Boat: SY Wake: 53' Amel Super Maramu
Posts: 307
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by x_HoldFast_x View Post
where are you now? Just watched your new video on YouTube. Where did you get your fully enclosed red cockpit covers and side panels? Love the red, by the way.
Ciao and thanks! Not my best work, but we're still getting the hang of the video editing, plus we ran out of time.....literally after I type this, we're locking up our little downsized flat, sticking the cats under our arms, getting on the boat, and starting our circumnavigation! The videos will be coming quicker now that we're moving, and with some more actual sailing and adventuring

As for the dodger, we LOVE it... protection on all sides, and about a jillion ways to roll or remove panels and windows. The PO had it custom done in Turkey. There's a tag on the side, I'll look it up and PM it to you in the next few days. I know it was fairly inexpensive (Turkey always is) but surprisingly good quality.

Fair winds and thanks again!
__________________
3 cats, 3 queers, endless wake, endless love!
https://www.facebook.com/anendlesswake/
https://anendlesswake.com/
Sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-10-2018, 04:37   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,775
Re: Buying a boat that's been on the hard ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
Ciao and thanks! Not my best work, but we're still getting the hang of the video editing, plus we ran out of time.....literally after I type this, we're locking up our little downsized flat, sticking the cats under our arms, getting on the boat, and starting our circumnavigation! The videos will be coming quicker now that we're moving, and with some more actual sailing and adventuring

As for the dodger, we LOVE it... protection on all sides, and about a jillion ways to roll or remove panels and windows. The PO had it custom done in Turkey. There's a tag on the side, I'll look it up and PM it to you in the next few days. I know it was fairly inexpensive (Turkey always is) but surprisingly good quality.

Fair winds and thanks again!
Post it publicly please
__________________

john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, buying, on the hard

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
450: Buying a boat that's been grounded? Millerslocal Lagoon Catamarans 24 31-01-2017 00:41
checking the condition of a diesel in a boat thts been on the hard 2 yrsm finefurn Engines and Propulsion Systems 12 08-09-2016 15:44
Looking At A Boat That Has Been On The Hard For 5 Yrs.... arjand Construction, Maintenance & Refit 18 17-03-2016 08:29
Buying a boat that has been sitting for 5 years. mike quinn Engines and Propulsion Systems 22 25-02-2014 12:33
Buying a boat that's been raced AndyJR Construction, Maintenance & Refit 13 09-01-2014 06:32



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.