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Old 16-09-2015, 15:38   #1
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Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I have been trying to buy a monohull sailboat for about 4 months. Looking for something with two cabins, two heads, 38 to 44 feet and decently set up with good equipment. Age is really not an issue, condition is more important. As this is my first sailboat I have been using a broker to help me find the right boat. Price range is up to 100K.

I have now made 3 offers on boats of between 85% and 95% of the asking price. And in every case the offer was rejected and I now know why. The broker for the seller did not want to lose half his commission so he failed to adequately sell the deal. And at least in one case a broker actually came back to me and said I could get the boat at that price if I came directly to him. Which to me was completely not ethical so I would not deal with him ever again. If this was a Real Estate agent I would go after there license. And I also now have learned that one of the sellers is a member of this forum and they didn't get good information from the broker on the offer.

How do I fix this issue? Is there any kind of broker ethics? I am a cash buyer, ready to buy a boat and am getting stonewalled because I am using a broker to help me. Something is wrong with this process. If your trying to sell your boat and are using a broker, you probably should have a come to Jesus discussion with them and make sure they have your best interest in the selling process.

If anyone has some good advice on how I can purchase a boat, please let me know.
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Old 16-09-2015, 15:50   #2
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

It would seem that your broker (the buyer's broker) should be the one to take action and to be upset--and to make sure these deals go through. If you are in Florida, it is my understanding that rules there may be stricter than in other states--there is also s state association as I recall. One thing about which I am also unclear--you say you are looking at boats from 30-44 feet--is that a typo?
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Old 16-09-2015, 16:03   #3
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Yes it is Paul. Thanks I will edit. Should be 38 to 44 feet. And my broker is upset about the issue. However none of the boats so far are state side.
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:01   #4
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I guess I'm curious too. Might I ask how you "know" seller broker did not try to sell owner? If broker didn't admit it, then did you talk to owners? Also, I guess, like real estate, some seller may be more motivated than others too, so could be the $5K to $15K loss may have been something they just decided to pass on. Just speculating, obviously. What is the seller agent cut on the $5K to $15K anyway? Were these surveyed, as you say they are not state side?
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:09   #5
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I was reading some posts a while ago about the advantages of using a buyers broker.
Somehow this didn't get mentioned lol.
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:12   #6
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I know because in one case the other broker came back to me and told me if I come directly to him, he could get the price approved. In a second case I did stumble across the owner as I found he also had it listed on a FSBO site. And he told me he had an offer of X which when he related more details, it was my offer through the broker. And the third one told my broker that he was not going to recommend the deal and then wanted to discuss commission because he thought it might work if he got a better cut.

So perhaps I am not reading those tea leaves correctly, but I don't think so.
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:26   #7
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

First, forget the buyer's broker. I never have understood that logic. Why does one need a buyers broker? You are right... why would the listing broker want to bend over backwards to make that deal work?
Second, if you make an offer, come up with a logic why you are offering what you are...ie: sell the deal to the broker. If you have a buyers broker and you sell to him, then he has to sell to the listing broker, then he has to sell to the owner,,... a lot can get done poorly! TOO MANY LAYERS! Understand?
Second , when going thru a boat you are close to offering on, look for the registration or etc... try to get the owners name and address. You can always contact him and talk about the boat, establish a minimal relationship with him, as well as let him know you are making him an offer. This may help to keep the broker from "getting in the way". The seller doesn't give a rat's ass if the broker has to split the commission or not! He wants it SOLD.
At this point you are screwed on all the boats you've looked at because you are obligated to two brokers. That in itself should tell you something,.... :>)
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Old 16-09-2015, 17:54   #8
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I used a buyers broker to buy my IP460...he saved me at least 20k when I was ready to accept the owners second counter...he gave me great advice and was looking out for my best interest.
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Old 17-09-2015, 09:50   #9
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I have a 2001 Hunter 380 for sale at $81k in Fort Myers Beach. The listing agent is Sarah (239-560-3374) with Massey Yachts. I am putting a new bottom job on it at Gulf Ways Marine next week. Call her she will sell you the boat or, at least, show me your offer.
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Old 17-09-2015, 11:16   #10
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Quote:
Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
I have been trying to buy a monohull sailboat for about 4 months. Looking for something with two cabins, two heads, 38 to 44 feet and decently set up with good equipment. Age is really not an issue, condition is more important. As this is my first sailboat I have been using a broker to help me find the right boat. Price range is up to 100K.

I have now made 3 offers on boats of between 85% and 95% of the asking price. And in every case the offer was rejected and I now know why. The broker for the seller did not want to lose half his commission so he failed to adequately sell the deal. And at least in one case a broker actually came back to me and said I could get the boat at that price if I came directly to him. Which to me was completely not ethical so I would not deal with him ever again. If this was a Real Estate agent I would go after there license. And I also now have learned that one of the sellers is a member of this forum and they didn't get good information from the broker on the offer.

How do I fix this issue? Is there any kind of broker ethics? I am a cash buyer, ready to buy a boat and am getting stonewalled because I am using a broker to help me. Something is wrong with this process. If your trying to sell your boat and are using a broker, you probably should have a come to Jesus discussion with them and make sure they have your best interest in the selling process.

If anyone has some good advice on how I can purchase a boat, please let me know.
Although it may be frustrating at the moment step back and enjoy the process. I have a Hudson Force 50 (LOA 60 feet) in Vancouver. If you plan on cruising then in addition to the boat being in good shape you may wish to think about functionality...such as generator, fuel capacity, water capacity, water maker, a sanitation processing system and the other important items that will make your cruising more enjoyable.

For example, I carry 1000 liters of fuel (350 US gal) and 400 US gal. of water. I cruise Vancouver Canada north to Alaska and around Vancouver Island. Water is very difficult to replenish without a water maker. Pump outs are virtually non existent so I have installed a USCG Type 1 system which allows for discharge over board, except in a no discharge zone. Battery capacity should be looked a but personally a generator is mandatory.

This s my first response on this site. If you wish to chat more just send me an e-mail. Hope some of his helps with your search.
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Old 17-09-2015, 11:24   #11
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Brokers in Florida are licensed and bonded. Their licenses are issued by the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes (God only knows why). There is also a Florida Yacht Brokers Association, which is an industry organization that tries to self-regulate brokers to the extent that they can.

If you are aware of unethical broker behavior, they should be reported to both of these organizations.
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Old 17-09-2015, 11:36   #12
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Although it sounds like a frustrating experience I gotta agree with Cheechako here. Brokers are like all businesses; their number one priority is to look after themselves (if it weren't then they'd work for free). Makes sense then that a seller's broker would be kinda pissed to have to share 1/2 the commission with someone else, especially since it doesn't really reduce the amount of work they had to do to sell the boat.

If you are talking a $1/2 million boat budget then it probably makes sense for all parties (brokers, seller and buyer). All interests can be sufficiently satisfied. But in this case a $100k boat is really a $50k boat for each broker. At this range I firmly believe brokers are far less useful to both the buyer and the seller.
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Old 17-09-2015, 19:04   #13
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I have a YOUNG SUN 43 Offshore Cutter in Fort Lauderdale, totally equiped and ready for South Pacific and beyond with everything from Watermaker to Windvane, just reduced to 89K. Call my broker Kirk at 954-649-4679.
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Old 17-09-2015, 19:34   #14
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Sounds like sellers need to be sure there is agreement with their broker that ALL offers will be presented.
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Old 18-09-2015, 06:25   #15
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

We have a Custom 44 based on the Bruce Roberts Offshore 44 for sale in Phuket, Thailand and Langk.awi, Malaysia. Only one head but has two cabins. Selling by owner at this time. Very well equipped and ready for liveaboards.
I will be back on board in two weeks and splash mid Oct and heading to Langkawi soon after. Langkawi is a duty free island.
Buy and be in great cruising grounds.
Cliff
Icicle I
listed on Apollo Duck and its own web page
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