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Old 21-09-2015, 09:25   #31
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
First, forget the buyer's broker. I never have understood that logic. Why does one need a buyers broker? You are right... why would the listing broker want to bend over backwards to make that deal work?
Second, if you make an offer, come up with a logic why you are offering what you are...ie: sell the deal to the broker. If you have a buyers broker and you sell to him, then he has to sell to the listing broker, then he has to sell to the owner,,... a lot can get done poorly! TOO MANY LAYERS! Understand?
Second , when going thru a boat you are close to offering on, look for the registration or etc... try to get the owners name and address. You can always contact him and talk about the boat, establish a minimal relationship with him, as well as let him know you are making him an offer. This may help to keep the broker from "getting in the way". The seller doesn't give a rat's ass if the broker has to split the commission or not! He wants it SOLD.
At this point you are screwed on all the boats you've looked at because you are obligated to two brokers. That in itself should tell you something,.... :>)
The buyers broker works for the buyer. Our broker did his job while the sellers broker was lazy and useless. We interviewed and selected our broker before buying.

We sent our broker to inspect a Liberty 458 in Seattle while we were back in Australia. He moved quickly and had the boat under offer within 2 days of its yachtworld listing. If we didn't move fast we wouldnt have got the boat. He arranged a mechanical inspection, engine and trans oil analysis and took videos with the owner to keep us informed.

A good buyers broker will overcome roadblocks on the sellers side. Sharing the broking commision is the brokers business. Not your problem.

If you are having problems your options are:

1) put in a formal complaint about the problem broker
2) walk away
3) bypass the brokers and go straight to the owner
4) find a better buyer's broker

We found several owners who didnt want to sell. The boat was listed to appease the wife but the owner would find any excuse to not sell.

We found good boats were selling in 2012 / 13 for an average of 15% below the listed price. We inspected 125 boats in 80 days on our global tour. We only found 3 worth making an offer on.

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Old 21-09-2015, 22:21   #32
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

One other thing you need to be aware of:
I found my boat for sale the other day on the internet. No not my type of boat. MY BOAT.
Had its old name, pictures of its circumnavigation, and lots of pictures of the interior when I bought it 8 years ago. Of course when I called about it, no info could be given, but if I came to that yacht broker, they are sure I could see it.
Yeah I can see it, off my dock. I called my broker and I insisted they take down the listing.
Its still there on Yacht Authority.com. Catching newbs from everywhere no doubt.
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Old 22-09-2015, 09:03   #33
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Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

When I bought our 43' Bene, the broker was not very helpful and didn't know much about the boat. It was on the hard so I paid to have it launched and re-hauled. A thorough marine survey is a MUST for valuation and insurance purposes. Then you have to decide if you want the boat or not. For me, price was the driver to pursue this boat. The survey was good for looking for moisture and de lamination issues (they bring their hammer) but everything else was "SERVICEABLE". Not very helpful when it comes to real functionality. It's a buyers market out there and you will eventually buy a boat. THEN you will see what you actually bought over the next 6-12 months. Insist on a sea trial and if the seller refuses, either walk away or make sure you're getting a great deal. The education of this process is well worth the expense and journey.


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Old 22-09-2015, 14:22   #34
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

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When I bought our 43' Bene, the broker was not very helpful and didn't know much about the boat. It was on the hard so I paid to have it launched and re-hauled. A thorough marine survey is a MUST for valuation and insurance purposes. Then you have to decide if you want the boat or not. For me, price was the driver to pursue this boat. The survey was good for looking for moisture and de lamination issues (they bring their hammer) but everything else was "SERVICEABLE". Not very helpful when it comes to real functionality. It's a buyers market out there and you will eventually buy a boat. THEN you will see what you actually bought over the next 6-12 months. Insist on a sea trial and if the seller refuses, either walk away or make sure you're getting a great deal. The education of this process is well worth the expense and journey.


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Thanks CHM. Maybe it's going to happen. Today my offer was accepted on a boat I have been looking at. It's still on the hard and yes I have a survey and sea trial to complete and then make the final acceptance. Then I need to go down to the islands and sail it back to Pureto Rico. Still a lot of hoops to jump through, but step 1 I think is about to be completed.
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Old 22-09-2015, 14:43   #35
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

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Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
Thanks CHM. Maybe it's going to happen. Today my offer was accepted on a boat I have been looking at. It's still on the hard and yes I have a survey and sea trial to complete and then make the final acceptance. Then I need to go down to the islands and sail it back to Pureto Rico. Still a lot of hoops to jump through, but step 1 I think is about to be completed.
Congratulations, good wishes and all the best.

Sounds like it's going in the right direction.

Stu
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Old 23-09-2015, 07:58   #36
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I had to laugh a bit while going through this string, there seems to be a little confusion on who's responsible for what.
If your buying a boat it's buyer beware, this is the number one rule, but there's also a little responsibility both ways.
It's unreasonable to expect a seller to be responsible for all costs incurred when a "potential buyer" wants a sea trial. If the boat is pickled and on the hard it's the potential buyers responsibility to pay for the launch and haul to do so, this sorts out the tire kickers. If you find this unreasonable then you'll have a hard time finding a seller who's willing to do a sea trial for you. If you feel this is unreasonable, see if the seller is willing to share the cost in the final sale if you decide to buy, possibly the seller would give you a credit for half the cost of the launch and haul in the final price.
Otherwise if it were me selling the boat I'd tell you to take a hike if you felt it was my cost to bear. In my early days of boat ownership I was selling a 30 footer I had bought, fixed up and used for awhile, it was a fine boat once it received some TLC, I pulled it at the end of the season, winterized it and did everything you need to do when prepping for storage and then put it up for sale. If you haven't owned a larger boat in the past you have no idea the work required prior to storing one.
This gentleman called and said he was serious, came and looked over the boat and then asked for a sea trial, in my clueless state I had it re-launched, did the sea trial and then waited for a response, none came, my calls were not returned, he didn't even have the decency to say he wasn't interested. Later that week while I was doing the work to put it into storage AGAIN, I was talking with another owner in the boat yard who asked who the guy was, when I told him the persons name he turned red and started spitting out his words, apparently the same fellow had done that to him two years prior. Apparently this individual just liked trying other peoples boats to see how he liked them, he already owned a boat in another marina and thought this was a fine way to get a free sail to see how he liked a different model in comparison to his his current boat .
You want to sea trial my boat that's currently in storage mode on the hard? Fine, pay for the launch and haul, don't whine, the cost of the launch and haul is only a small portion of the cost associated with sea trialing a pickled boat, it doesn't begin to cover the work and cost associated with the entire endeavor.
Paying the labor to mount and dismount a major assembly like solar panels is out of the question for a simple sea trial, too many tire kickers and dreamers out there who have no intention of buying. Why would you even need those assemblies to be mounted when they have no impact on the sailing or motoring capability of the boat? Any decent surveyor should be able to ascertain the condition and functionality of those parts, if they cant you need to get a different surveyor.
There should be reasonable expectations on the part of both parties involved.
When I bought our current boat it took three years of looking before I found one that fit all our needs (the wife and kids have needs too), I looked at quite a few boats before deciding to pull the trigger. To save time and cost on both sides I always let the brokers know I'm just doing a preliminary look to see if I'm interested enough to go any further, they don't have to be present if it's too far from their base of operation. Many times the boat is stored close to the owners home, not the brokers office, it's easier to have the owner present to open the boat if there amenable to that, if you look and are interested enough to go further then get everyone else involved.
In the case of my current boat, the boat was in Maine, the broker was out of Newport, RI, the owner was in Arizona for the season. I was able to have the owner give permission to the storage yard to hand me the keys so I could go through it, which worked best for all parties, they didn't have to incur the time and cost to travel to the yard, I got an entire day to go through the boat thoroughly and my wife had the time to get a feel for the boat while I went through the bilges, mechanicals and systems. We didn't decide at that point but let the broker and owner know where we were at as a courtesy to both for their cooperation, then took two months to think it over, we also looked at others during that time. When we did decide to move forward there was already a cooperative relationship in place, so the purchase and sale was a pretty low stress affair. The agreement was contingent on a sea trail, but the owner was having it launched for the season anyway by that point and our agreement was contingent on the trial and anything found at that time. We did do some negotiation after that but mostly it revolved around the owner have several systems serviced and a couple items replaced, which he had taken care of promptly. It doesn't have to be a battle but it does take some commitment of time and expense on both sides, in the end it works best when it's fair for all parties involved.
When selling boats I've told some potentials to take a hike when they were unreasonable, I've found it saves me a lot of wasted time and effort, my time is just as valuable as anyone elses.
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Old 23-09-2015, 08:37   #37
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

LoR57, Thanks for the insight. This is my first boat and very much a learning experience. I already had an offer to purchase in the sellers hands, I had already agreed to the launch and haul for the sea trial as I agree those would be my costs. The issue was the solar and the wind generator not installed. And the surveyor did tell me he could not verify them to be working unless they were installed for the sea trial. What has happened is that I will pay for them to be installed and if I buy we split that cost for the install. So we shall see. Like I said, very much a learning experience.
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Old 23-09-2015, 10:09   #38
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

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I have a YOUNG SUN 43 Offshore Cutter in Fort Lauderdale, totally equiped and ready for South Pacific and beyond with everything from Watermaker to Windvane, just reduced to 89K. Call my broker Kirk at 954-649-4679.
Just looked at your listing on Yachtworld....beautiful boat! Good luck with selling her.
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Old 23-09-2015, 11:33   #39
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

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LoR57, Thanks for the insight. This is my first boat and very much a learning experience. I already had an offer to purchase in the sellers hands, I had already agreed to the launch and haul for the sea trial as I agree those would be my costs. The issue was the solar and the wind generator not installed. And the surveyor did tell me he could not verify them to be working unless they were installed for the sea trial. What has happened is that I will pay for them to be installed and if I buy we split that cost for the install. So we shall see. Like I said, very much a learning experience.
Good Luck! I hope the boat turns out to be everything you were looking for, of course the steep part of the learning curve is just beginning, but it's a good learning curve.
All is negotiable in a boat sale, the best ones are when it works well for all parties involved, if the seller is motivated and fair I'm sure you can come to a mutually agreed fair price. Is it registered in a certain state or a Coast Guard documented vessel? Either way you will need a clear title, the coast guard documentation is a little more involved but gives your boat a clear owners history and also is better to have if you plan on sailing internationally, then, when you eventually decide to sell it the documentation also makes it easier to transfer ownership.
You'll now learn things you never knew you needed to learn, own tools you never knew you needed to own, and gain skills you never knew existed, it's all fun.
Hope all goes well, good luck.
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Old 24-09-2015, 04:50   #40
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Actually registered in the UK. Part of the P&S is that the de-registration process is completed by the seller and the selling broker and I will hire boatdoc.com to complete the USCG registration process for it.

I already own most of the tools fortunately, and a few of the skills, but am sure I have lots to learn and many more skills to be competent. So far every question I have come up with a basic search on this forum and you tube provide an answer. Just need to figure out how to ship the tools I need to the Marina I plan to keep it at.

My first task will be to sail the boat from it's current location in the South Caribbean to Pureto Rico where I will keep it in a Marinia for several months. I need to do some more skill building using an in mast furling main, add some new electronics, figure out how to care for the exposed teak, install an arch for mounting the existing solar and wind systems and dinghy davits. So I will keep busy for a few months on those projects.
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Old 24-09-2015, 07:36   #41
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Fortunately my wife does all the varnishing work, mainly because I'm doing all the plumbing, wiring, engine and systems work.
Now if my 6 year old boy could just increase his mechanical skills he could fit on those places I don't fit..........
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Old 24-09-2015, 07:42   #42
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

Careful with the furling main idea. You need a special mast for that.
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Old 24-09-2015, 16:51   #43
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

The boat already has the in mast furling main and has had it since new from the factory. So maybe this is wrong and another thing to learn, but I have to assume that it would have the correct mast.
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Old 24-09-2015, 16:58   #44
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Re: Buying a boat is really hard, things sellers should know

I had assumed the boat had a regular mast
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