Buying a Boat in the US vs Oz

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Sequoia

Also - no one has addressed my wondering if I am a US citizen... yet living in Australia (as an Australian citizen) couldn't I just keep my boat here in Oz but registered as a US ship? No duty - no tax?

As you are Australian resident, then they will be coming after you pretty quickly for Duty & GST.

Don't forget that if you buy and fit out in the US that you need to factor in flights & accommodation costs whilst you look, negotiate, sign the deal and fit the boat out. That all can add up if you don't find a boat on the doorstep of some family who you can stay with.

As you are looking at the bottom end of the market, these other costs will very quickly eat up any savings.

On the other hand, if you have someone over there who knows what they are doing and have a decent yacht market on their doorstep, then you can use them to do the buying remotely.

[Johnathon123]

Mate, I am in my almost 3 Rd year of looking. I started with a budget of $60k. Now have a budget of 200k. Still I am expected to compromise by Aussie sellers. Sometimes it is downright embarrassing to look at these boats (search "kissing frogs" and you will see)

I have started looking OS because I really have my heart set on a Pacific Seacraft 37 but I can't see myself saving a lot to be honest.

Right now I am glad it's cooling down as I don't feel so bad not having a boat.

BTW if anyone sees a psc 37 floating out there in OZ / NZ let me know

You will no the right boat, when you find it you won't need to ask us for an opinion, it really is that simple. You will get a heap of advice here but it is advice from there perspective not yours. Doesn't mean it's not valuable you just need to make it part of your decision making process not the entire process.

Have fun (sometimes it doesn't seem like fun but it is all part of it) folks here will keep you on an even keel when it seems all you can do is kiss frogs!

My next boat will be green and called Kermit, it's only fair.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by savoir

That will come with a time limit. There is no rule about how long will be on offer but you could expect something around a year or so. 3 months is the basic term for visiting boats but you can request longer. After that term expires you will have to visit another country.

You will probably find that this only applies to foreign resident Australian citizens like me (been non-resident 13 years and now dual with a Swedish passport). As the OP is an Aussie resident, I doubt any exemption applies beyond perhaps a short term.

[savoir]

I was assuming he planned to enter Australia on the US passport. If he enters Australia with any foreign boat and uses the Australian passport the assessment of duty plus GST will be instant. The only variable is time to pay which involves begging - it isn't a right. There is a very long thread on this subject in the multihull section.

As for boats, set a Yachtworld search for California and $50 - 70k. You will be amazed at how many boats pop up. Do your coastal cruising in Mexico. I can think of worse places. Who cares if it takes a year to get to Panama?

[VirtualVagabond]

Does anyone know if it's possible to pay the gst and duty at the time of registering the boat with AMSA, ie as part of the purchase?

If the boat gets here within a year or so, it seems the basis of the calculation can be the purchase price, rather than a local valuation.
But if you explore the Pacific on the way and take a couple of years, they will say too much time has passed and they will get a valuer to put a price on it.

It would be so much better to bite the bullet at the time of buying and just pay everything. They'd get their money early, and we wouldn't have to rush back home.

Any thoughts or experiences?

[hoppy]

[QUOTE=savoir;670405]I was assuming he planned to enter Australia on the US passport. [QUOTE]
That is very illegal, just as is entering the US on his Australian passport.

[savoir]

I'm afraid you can't pay duty until arrival. Think of all the funny business that could go on between unseen duty assessment and arrival in Australia. The tax man is a wake up to that one.

Actually, a two year voyage is financially better for the owner. You can demand a private valuation and legitimately refuse the customs valuation which always errs on the high side. Such a long voyage can make an owner very forgetful too. I've heard of owners forgetting to show the valuer the dinghy, bimini, spare sails, cover, BBQ, spare anchor etc etc.

Sigh. Such a shame.

[Get-a-Life]

We went down this path three years ago when we decided to get back into yachting.

Eventually we purchased a Carter 33 Passage in Sydney.

The Carter was/is an old IOR 3/4tonner, the passage is an aft cabin version of the racer so it could be described as a racer cruiser.

We where lucky to purchase it for $55,000 with a brand new diesel professionally fitted. The rest of the inventory read very comprehensively and indeed we thought that we would be capable to sail it from Sydney to Hobart without any hassles.

What the inventory did not state was that all the equipment was original (1985) read worn out.

Since arriving home with the boat I have been involved in an extensive refurbishment programme and have spent an additional $35,000 - $40,000 refitting or replacing everything.

This of course now means that the boat is over capitalised, I don't have a problem with this as we know that other than the hull (very sound and strong) we basically have a new boat on our hands.

I guess what I am trying to convey to you is that the brokers description and reallity are poles apart

If you decide to buy in the USA then be prepared to spending and doing a lot of work on the boat BEFORE you leave. Once you are on passage and something goes haywire, the cost is multiplied ten fold because you are at the mercy of a lot of opportunistic rip off merchants.

Good luck with your choice.

Ken

[YourOldNemesis]

Hi, obviously I haven't seen the boats you're considering, but I wouldn't be put off by the price. Some people think you need something very expensive to live aboard, some people don't. If you note the word 'need' in the last sentence, the fact that some people do it on cheap boats without all the fancy toys tells you that those who insist on expensive are paying for more than they need to do it.

As for a list of stuff you'll need:
Sail repair kits
Spare halyards
Spare sheets
Oil filters
At least 1 oil-change's worth of oil
Fuel filters
Spare alternator(s) & belts
Spare hoses (ALL of them)
Spare stainless steel circlips (loads of them)
Spare relays
Spare fuses
Gaffer tape, WD40 & cable ties (obviously)
Spare wiring
Full tool kit
Fire extinguishers
Fire blankets
Flares
EPIRB
Liferaft
Lots of spare shackles
Emergency forestay/backstay
Emergency water jugs (full) (number depends on volume of tanks)
Emergency diesel jugs (full) (number depends of volume of tanks)
VHF
Spare set of sails (could be the old ones)
Storm sails
Charts (paper or electronic)
Sextant & almanac & GPS (most people like to have a backup method for navigation, although these days that normally means GPS x2)
Lifejackets & harnesses
Climbing harness/bosun's chair
Grease & grease gun
Snorkel, mask, fins (maybe wetsuit, depending on where you're sailing)
MOB harness
Dinghy
Adequate anchor, spare anchor and appropriate rode
Compass
Correct lighting & spares
Spare RUDDER and means of attaching
Emergency tiller
Autopilot (my preference is the wind-vane type, as they draw NO power and are mechanical - hence are easier to fix)
other spares depending on boat systems (eg spare hydraulic oil if steering is hydraulic, fibreglass repair kit if boat is GRP)
2 part waterproof putty
Bungs
Egg-timer (for nightwatch - to stop you going to sleep)
Head torch with red filter
series drogue/parachute anchor
grab-bag
radar reflector
Anchor windlass
Working bilge pumps
Hand bilge pumps
Buckets
Fenders
Common sense

Nice to have:
Dinghy outboard
Sailing dinghy
Fridge
Dive-tanks & compressor
Roller-reefing foresail
Tow-generator
Fishing lines & lures
Lots of books
Computer & films to watch
Stereo
Bimeny
Diesel stove (I'm sure others who have never struggled to get LPG and have also never used a Diesel stove will disagree with this)
Bicycles
Electric anchor windlass
Davits
Lavac head
boat-hook with clever carabiner clippy thing for picking up moorings
Water usage counter (cumulative flow meter)
Fuel usage counter (cumulative flow meter)

Things I would deliberately avoid:
Electrically pumped water systems
Electric winches
Electric/hydraulic furlers
In-mast furling
In-boom furling
Electric cooking
Cats
Cockroaches

I definitely agree that if you buy on the east coast of the US, by the time you get to the Pacific, you'll be ready for it (or ready to sell the boat!). You'll have plenty of opportunity to figure out what you really can't do without before you get to the long passage to the Marqueses too. If you're still not happy doing it on your own, you can always get experienced crew or even hire a skipper for the long bits.

[savoir]

I took my own advice and did the search just to see what would pop up in your price bracket.

There are three boats I've always liked. Cal 39 - they really can handle the ocean. I've sailed one to Hawaii and back without any drama, C & C 38 , Catalina 36 - both good boats for the price. Take a look.

Refits in California can be a good idea and are cheaper than Oz mainly because all the parts cost less. Yes, I have done it. Structure your affairs right and you can skip CA sales tax too.

[meyermm]

What you need to cruise - power either solar and wind + engine alternator. Batteries that are in good condition to hold the charge not five year olds ready for the tip. Enough fuel storage to enable the engine to be run regularly to charge those batteries. Some form of self steering and at least two GPS units with charts. Preferably some back up paper charts as well, sails that are not about to blow out. Rigging that is less than eight years old maximum. Enough water to allow washing cooking and yes bodily cleaning and at least a small water heater which uses the engine cooling system for heat. Remember you may be happy to go without a wash but your partner may not. A Fridge may not be high on your needs but I think it should be to allow some variety in foods.
This assumes that the engine, hull etc are all in good sound working order and some spare parts to allow at least minor servicing. A small rubber ducky and outboard to suite. I am sure we will now get run over with those disagreeing but you will have to make the final decision yourself. Best to buy boat with little gear and priced to suite so you can buy just what you want and it is new, most so called well equipped boats are full of equipment that is at the end of its service life. Good luck

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by savoir

I'm afraid you can't pay duty until arrival. Think of all the funny business that could go on between unseen duty assessment and arrival in Australia. The tax man is a wake up to that one.

Actually, a two year voyage is financially better for the owner. You can demand a private valuation and legitimately refuse the customs valuation which always errs on the high side. Such a long voyage can make an owner very forgetful too. I've heard of owners forgetting to show the valuer the dinghy, bimini, spare sails, cover, BBQ, spare anchor etc etc.

Sigh. Such a shame.

I was under the impression that they appointed the valuer, and you had to accept his valuation.

[Marinheiro]

Virtual Vagabond is correct - valuation is only accepted from Custom's accredited brokers. Your immigration form will tell the story, if you tick the box "are you a returning permanent resident", then the hand will be straight out for the money subject to valuation.

[Factor]

Here is the rules - knock yourselves out:

importing a yacht
Yachts are subject to a general rate of duty of 5% based on the customs value (basically the price paid) and 10% GST calculated on the customs value plus international transport and insurance plus the duty.

Privately imported yachts are generally valued using the transaction method of valuation when purchased overseas new or second-hand for export to Australia. Circumstances where Customs may use an alternative method of valuation include such situations as where:

the yacht was constructed by owner/labour;
the yacht has been extensively modified since purchase;
the purchaser and vendor are related parties and that relationship has influenced the purchase price; or
the original purchase price is too far removed in time.
In these instances the yacht will have to be valued by a marine surveyor in Australia. This valuation will be based on the market value and as such will include elements such as customs duty and GST. Customs will have to deduct these elements plus overseas transport from the local valuation.

Where the yacht is sailed to Australia, overseas freight will be determined having regard to essential sailing costs incurred under the most commercially viable conditions. Such costs would include sailing expenditure necessarily incurred while the vessel is actually sailing (and entering and leaving) those ports of call on the most commercially viable route. It would not include any in port expenditure related to the vessel's period of stopover

. Where supported by sufficient/reliable information, essential sailing costs would also include:

cost of maps, charts pilot books, light/radio lists, etc.
crew's hire/wages or forage allowance in lieu
victualling or food costs (does not include tobacco and alcoholic beverages)
bunkering or oil/fuel costs.
This is an indicative rather than exhaustive list, if you have any doubts or queries seek further information from a Customs Information and Support Centre 1300 363 263

[Marinheiro]

Also have you looked across the Tasman, AUD = NZD1.33 at present.
Search in tradeaboat and trademe
You only pay GST on boats built in NZ no duty. And I stand corrected re Boats built in USA (but not Taiwanese or French or other imports purchased from USA), these are duty exempt under the FTA between USA and Australia