Buy a 1990s Swan or a Brand New (but Cheaper) Brand ?

[MehmetCan]

O.k. I'll be honest... The reason that I've asked about the 57RS was because it was Cybill Shepherd for me. Not quite attractive today but my first love!

[MarkJ]

There must be somthing wrong with the 2005 Oyster 53 for USD$720,000 even without VAT included its too cheap, isnt it? Have a look at that one.
Oyster 53/14

Price: £450,000
Year: 2001



As for the Jeaneau... theres a big one I saw here and its got an excellent layout on deck/cockpit its the 57 or 58? Beats the deck and cockpit of the Beneteau 58.

And new, fully optioned you would have money left over to really enjoy your life

[MehmetCan]

Yes, the 57 Jeanneau is truly outrageous and it really looks like it worths more!

As for the Oyster, the price looked cheap to me as well, maybe economical crisis!

What do you think about the Sensation 75 Mark?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by MehmetCan

What do you think about the Sensation 75 Mark?

I don't know them. I am not sure if it looks hiddeous.

Remember: Never buy Hull No1 (and in a production line boat never buy under Hull #10!)

I dunno. If thats the dollars you are talking to spend?

Fly over and have a look.

[NotQuiteLost]

Most of the high-end Swans, Taswells, Oysters and Moodys suffer from the same basic issue: owner neglect. The owner doesn't want to deal with maintenance, so it all gets deferred for a decade until (for some unknown reason, *wink wink*) they decide to sell it for 70% of new. This, combined with the sometimes outrageous availability/price issues make for a tough and expensive refit. But they obviously hold their value well, which is more than can be said of most high-end custom jobs.

But oh man, are they sexy and do they handle well. I've always leaned toward Oyster when dreaming of multimillion dollar boats, simply because they are specifically designed for my purpose: long-distance, short-handed, comfortable cruising.

At the end of the day, though, I'd probably buy a custom design from someone like Bob Perry and build the thing out of Monel or 70/30 Copper-Nickel, if I was going to spend that kind of coin on a boat. Then it well-and-truly could last forever without any significant hull maintenance. That would be worth the multimillion price tage.

I did love that the sailboat in the second and third seasons of Lost was a Swan. Beautiful, beautiful boats.

[cfarrar]

Speaking to Mark's point that the Swan 58 was already dated by the 1990s, here's a mid-90s, Chuck Pain Apogee 58 with nearly the same layout as Swanky. The raised salon is much wider and more comfortable. The storage and engineering spaces are excellent. This is a well-built boat, and with 6' more waterline and a modern hull design, it's certainly faster.

Able Apogee 58

Here's another Apogee 58, with stern cockpit and beautiful woodwork below.

Both much cheaper than the Swan.

[hummingway]

Seems you can get a pretty nice boat for that money:
View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

but if you are certifiable or just really want bragging rights with the wooden boat gang this is truly old world:
View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

[MehmetCan]

Somehow Passport Vista 615 seems nice too. Especially the usage of extra cabin space for engine room is great for long distance cruising I think.

[donradcliffe]

I was at the Newport boat show this year, and there are a lot of nice boats in the 55-65' range on the used market. Selling prices are going to be a lot lower than asking prices. Part of the fun of buying a boat is looking at a lot of them and finding the one which tugs at your heartstrings. Looks aren't everything, so you need to take several of them sailing.

I have delivered the Able Apogee a few times, and it is a joy to sail.

[Tia Bu]

I've got a forty-year old boat- far opposite end of the price spectrum . Very strangely, I've found that new equipment I buy tends to break or not function at about the same rate as the old equipment on the boat.

What's up with that? Salt water and Murphy's law, I guess. So I'm not sure that buying new necessarily yields greater reliability.

Come to think of it, I remember a couple of boats my dad owned a decade ago. One was brand new from the factory. The other was over twenty years old. About the same level of maintenance/breakdowns/reliability on both boats. At least the new one was under warranty.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Tia Bu

What's up with that?

Perception of the truth.

People are, of course, selective in memory. Thats why courts chuck out repressed memories, and the like, now. They are BS

[Tia Bu]

Maybe. But on further reflection, I don't really think so. Went on a 3 month cruise this past summer. Early on I found myself wishing I had a newer boat so I wouldn't have to worry about so many things breaking. Then as I started looking objectively at what was breaking, the new stuff I had bought for the cruise was giving more trouble than the old stuff on the boat.

Come to think of it, I have gone on two sailing trips with a buddy over the past couple of years-- one on his two-year-old boat and one on my very old boat. There was slightly more equipment trouble on his boat than mine on those trips.

Bottom line, there are valid reasons to buy a new boat over a used one-- the cost is predictable, you get direct contact with and service from the factory, you like the new-boat smell, etc. But the OP's question was whether he should buy a used boat that he really likes or a newer one that he doesn't like as much. I guess this is a vote for the used one.

[sobriyah]

Maybe its time I threw my two cents into this thread, as someone who bought a second hand Oyster and has lived aboard her for the last seven years. Before we bought her, having looked at many yachts, our final decision was between a new Moody 47 and a used Holman and Pye Oyster 485. Also considered used Rassys, Najads, Swans, but there were few for sale or above our price limit. What swung it was seeing a used Moody 46 at Swanwick, only a couple of years old, but falling apart. They are just not in the same league, and we don't see many in the Caribbean.

So what has gone wrong in seven years? well not much actually. An alternator, the fridge compressor, a few locker catches, a pump or two, several microwaves, and recently the hot water calorifier. The rig and deck gear is bullet proof, the decks are still good, shes still very dry, very comfortable, straightforward to owner-maintain, easy to sail double-handed, not that much harder solo, hasn't depreciated a great deal, plus there is great after-sales back-up, and entry into the Oyster regattas.

I know the boat that is currently for sale earlier in this thread, and shes in great condition. I guess the price reflects the current market, and the owners desire to sell. Most of the bigger Oysters will have been pro-skipper maintained from new, so some of the earlier comments are simply not appropriate, and before anyone says it, no I do not have any affiliations to Oystermarine.

As far as the title of this thread goes, I knew well the skipper of an older Swan 65. Lovely yacht, lovely classic lines, fast, and built like a tank, but needed four crew to sail her and twelve to race, plus an annual budget of $250,000 to keep her going. Not for the fainthearted. Sold for less than $400,000.

[MehmetCan]

I guess all these last posts help me clarify one thing about the boating community. We love the Oysters, Swans, Rassy's and Najads not because they're only rock hard but because they have soul. Just like a Mercedes compared to a Honda, these factory production boats usually last just as long with proper maintenance but at the end of the day, saying that you own a Merc is the reason why you pay twice as more... Take the newest Jeanneau 53&57's or Beneteau 57's; they have every hardware that you can find on a Najad or Rassy, yet cost one fifth!

I have to refuse the "expensive boats tend to recieve less owner care" theory as well. This maybe true for motor yachts that spend their entire life at the marina but these expensive sail yachts are usually bought by proper (and of course wealthy) sailors who know what they want and usually having their fourth or fifth boat as a reward to themselves. Not to mention that these boats usually get constant professional maintenance and upgrades instead of "if it breaks, it's time to fix" approach on the cheaper ones.

As I've mentioned last night, I still love the 57RS, not because it's the best Swan ever, but because she was the gal that I kept looking at her picture for hours when she was first produced.

One last thing is a sentence that I've read thousands of times on cruisersforum; no boat is factory standard bluewater cruiser. Even Swans and Oysters! O.k. you make minimum modifications on them but then again they still need a bit of fiddling to fit the owners exact needs (or those fiddlings are made at the boatyard after owners requests on purchase!). Plus as most of the sailors know, after a while cruising, an easy access to a pipe or a wire is much more important than an ultra rare brazilian whachacallit tree veneer cover.

I know that I wanted my gal the first time I saw her. Guess that will be the thing when I see the perfect boat as well...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MehmetCan

Yes, the 57 Jeanneau is truly outrageous and it really looks like it worths more!

As for the Oyster, the price looked cheap to me as well, maybe economical crisis!

What do you think about the Sensation 75 Mark?

The Oyster price is normal.

I wasted a year trying to buy an Oyster and had a deposit down on one, so I know a little about it.

They are very reasonable in price from 10 to 20 years old. The problem is that they are all knackered. Oyster sailors really use them hard -- I never saw a lightly used one, and I looked at dozens. And they don't take good care of them.

Still, I think a 10 year old Oyster can be a good deal -- just budget for a thorough refit. They are lovely boats, much better than Swan as a cruising boat.