Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-06-2009, 20:10   #16
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
I don't what you have planned for alternative power sources. I would be concerned with the fuel and water capacity. If you have enough solar panels/wind generators for you power needs then you might be okay; if you only use the engine for entering and leaving harbors. You will want to top off your tanks before you leave. If you have to run the engine for electrical generation very much, you will find yourself short on diesel. For a circumnavigation that will prove to be an ongoing headache. I don't know if you have a place below decks for a bladder, but that might be an option if there were.
__________________

__________________
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 21:49   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiracer View Post

I never developed strong feelings on insulation. I think the quality of the original paint job is most important thing. Foaming less so.

I looked at a 1970s Dutch steel boat. Her interior paint was still in first class condition.
I have no experience with steel hulls, but I would be inclined to agree with you. I would think it would be preffered to have a good coating and panels that i can be easily removed for inspection or repair access.

From what I gather, this hull was redone in 1997 or so, but the interior hull may have been repainted since then. I'll find out when I see her and sit down with her current owner

Quote:
Holding tank environment is too corrossive for any SS.
That would not surprise me at all.

Quote:
You don't need to coat mild steel fuel tanks. My fuel tank is part of the keel also. Weight down low where is does a boat good. And it's out of the way. Perfect.
I like the location too, but the lack of even difficult replacement scares me. So there isn't much chance of corrosion due to condensation ?
main/day tank concept I like a lot. Cleaner fuel to the diesel.

Quote:
Shore power: I don't use it, for the most part. I hook up when I need AC for drills, etc.
I think we'll use it a lot initially. If we end up living on her before we head off, we'll need highspeed internet. Not to mention for powertools.

The alternative would be a small genset...

I had originally, more or less, written off the idea of a genset. We don't see much point in Air Conditioning, or microwaves etc.
But a small portable honda unit may be a good idea for when we are in locations with no shore power and need power for tools or backup power needs.

Quote:
If the owners of this boat have been dragging her around the continent after themselves, that means they loved the boat.
They definitely do, but at this point they want to downsize to something more in the daysailer size.

Quote:
Do measure your sail area. Here is a calculator to compute SA/D ratio: SA / D Ratio You do understand that sail-area-to-displacement ratio is a dimensionless ratio?
I'm not 100% sure what her SA is, but I know that her mast is 37', boom is 12.6' , "J" is 14.8'

You calculate the full sail area correct ?
So 273.8 sqft for foretriangle.. 150% genoa would make it 410.7 sqft

That boom looks to be 3.5' from the cabin top ?
So 211 sqft ?

484.85 or 621.7 sqft (with 150% genoa) ?

Her federal registered (documented) weight is 16,780.... so 17,000
So you end up with 11.73 or 15.05 ????

I wish I knew her LWL....

Those photos of her sailing show her before she had the hard dodger, so not sure if her current battened main has any roach

Quote:
If you are looking for a hard-core couples cruising boat, personally I would be more than a little excited about this boat. I like her.
It's funny really, I haven't been looking at her type, but I've always liked the idea of a narrower boat since the time I sailed on a Peterson 33 for a week.

When I found out she was coming up for sale, and her owner sent the specs just for interest's sake... my head started thinking....steel.... small but maybe just right..... well taken care of.... got some gear that works well....attractive price......hmmm... hmmmmmmmmmm

In regards to the boats we have sailed..

We have never owned a keelboat before.
I learned to sail/race on a 18' Sol Cat in the late 70's, and eventually got busy with other things.
Once married, a friend offered to let us sail his dinghy for the afternoon at the lake (without telling us the hull leaked). A chance to introduce my wife to sailing gone bad... the boat was awash when we got back to the launch ramp.
Thankfully a year later, a friend took her out on a hobie 16, on the trapeze, and she came home wanting a sailboat.
A pile of books, formal training, and days on the water etc later...
We currently own a racing dinghy and have bareboat chartered the typical
monohulls for a couple weeks a year.
Beside those, we have sailed for a week or more on a small C&C, a couple Bayfields, the peterson 33 and a formosa 42

I'm one of the lucky ones, with a wife who adores sailing, likes wilderness camping, can fix a head, and looks good in boots.


In regards to the owner's group... that was the only place I could find any info about Buchanan's work. That led me to post here to see what other thought about her.

Thanks for the advice...

Cheers,
Roy
__________________

__________________
Leeward Rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 22:31   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
I don't what you have planned for alternative power sources. I would be concerned with the fuel and water capacity. For a circumnavigation that will prove to be an ongoing headache. I don't know if you have a place below decks for a bladder, but that might be an option if there were.
Thanks for the reply captain58sailin !

Exactly my thoughts.....
The water issue could be dealt with by a watermaker if things get tight, but that requires power which eats fuel.
With luck there is room someplace for some more tankage without cutting into accessable stowage for food, spares and other gear.

I sure as heck don't want to have jugs stapped on deck

I'll see if any of my books have data for power and fuel consumption calculations.

hmmmm
Lights, Handheld GPS, laptop, SSB..... throw the previously mentioned radar in the sea....

Cheers,
Roy
__________________
Leeward Rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 08:41   #19
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 506
Don't use the sail area of a 150% genoa for SA/D. Just use 100% fore triangle.
Why fool yourself?
__________________
bob perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 09:41   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
Don't use the sail area of a 150% genoa for SA/D. Just use 100% fore triangle.
Why fool yourself?
Thanks for the reply Bob !
Yeah that 15.05 is a bit nuts, she sure isn't a racer/cruiser

Forgive the ignorance...I'm new to this keelboat buying game, but I learn fast and ask all sorts of questions

OK..So SA/D and any other calcs using SA just use the 100% fore triangle.
Is the main usually calculated as being a simple triangle with no roach, or her actual main ?

I'll get her real measurements this weekend, including her waterline.

Anyone have any suggestions of things to try, during her sea trial ?

Cheers,
Roy
__________________
Leeward Rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 10:33   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Roy,

Don't believe mast and boom measurements. Measure yourself. I've run into too much misinformation when I was boat shopping.

If the mast really is 37' and the boom that short, your SA/D ratio is pretty low. I would not be happy with that boat. But that's just me.

Frankly, looking at the pictures, the mast looks bigger than 37'. I'm wondering if there is a typo somewhere. Measure yourself.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 11:44   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiracer View Post
Roy,

Frankly, looking at the pictures, the mast looks bigger than 37'. I'm wondering if there is a typo somewhere. Measure yourself.
Morning Hiracer,

I will.

We'll be on her for 2 days. with luck Sunday will have light winds.

In regards to fuel and AC power...
I didn't realize that they don't seem to make a real small diesel generator.
Looking at the size of even the small ones... would it not be better to just have a drive belt off the auxillary than can be engaged when needed ?
That way the space saved could be used for more fuel tankage.

With people bluewater sailing in even smaller boats, there has got to be a way to solve the water/fuel/power issue in a easy to maintain way.

A tape measure will be my best friend I think.

Cheers,
Roy
__________________
Leeward Rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 12:12   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeward Rail View Post
Is the main usually calculated as being a simple triangle with no roach, or her actual main ?
I could be wrong, but I think the link to the SA calculator I posted automatically adds some roach to the mainsail area. All you need to do is input the measurements. And the SA is based on 100% foretriangle, as it should be for comparison purposes.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 13:19   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiracer View Post
I could be wrong, but I think the link to the SA calculator I posted automatically adds some roach to the mainsail area. All you need to do is input the measurements. And the SA is based on 100% foretriangle, as it should be for comparison purposes.
I caught 1 mistake I did (boom is 1ft longer than my previous calc)

Boom in the spec sheet is 12'6"
Using the specsheet's data, along with a guess on the P value (33.5'), and the J value that the owner verbally told me (14.8') we end up with a SA of 484.85

Using the documented weight of 16,780lbs
we end up with a slightly higher SA/D of: 11.84

Now to see what she's like in real life.
__________________
Leeward Rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 13:56   #25
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 506
Lee:
Yes, just so you will be in sync (sink) with almost all the articles that are written and specs posted confine sail area to I,J,E and P with nothing added for main roach or additional LP. Of course if you hit your head tonight and begin looking at catamarans you do have to consider those big roachy mains. It's a judgement call but for typical crusing boats, no roach, no genoa overlap.

If you like this boat, I do and I think you do, then do not let that low SA/D scare you. Just be aware of what you have. My own boat has a low SA/D. I bought it before I calculated it! I'd already fallen in love with it, or more accurately, my wife had already fallen in love with it. I was shocked when I saw my SA/D was so low but over time I have learned to live with it and I enjoy the fact that in ten years I have never reefed the main. I just strap her in, flatten the hell out of it, hold on and let her buck. Your boat will be slow in light air but a lot of fun in a breeze. Remember, numbers are not boats. Numbers are just numbers. You cannot reduce the overall personality of any boat down to a number.

Are you sure of that mast length, i.e. "I" dimension?
That does seem very short to me.
__________________
bob perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 15:09   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Thanks for the reply Bob !

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
Lee:

If you like this boat, I do and I think you do, then do not let that low SA/D scare you. Just be aware of what you have. My own boat has a low SA/D. I bought it before I calculated it! I'd already fallen in love with it, or more accurately, my wife had already fallen in love with it. I was shocked when I saw my SA/D was so low but over time I have learned to live with it and I enjoy the fact that in ten years I have never reefed the main. I just strap her in, flatten the hell out of it, hold on and let her buck. Your boat will be slow in light air but a lot of fun in a breeze. Remember, numbers are not boats. Numbers are just numbers. You cannot reduce the overall personality of any boat down to a number.

Are you sure of that mast length, i.e. "I" dimension?
That does seem very short to me.

hehe
Funny you should mention never reefing the main.
The current owner said the he hasn't either, and he's not a fair weather sailor by any means (neither am I for that matter, as my forum ID implies)

In light winds I can break out the tea, and a book, knowing that I planned for it anyhow.

The whole point of sailing IMO, is being on the water as much as is prudent and exploring places.
To me that says increased chances of running aground or being caught in a force 10
A boat that can take us literally anywhere safely is what I'm look
ing for.

This boat, in fact, took the hard back in 1975 on her 1st trip.
She ran into a granite ledge on the great lakes @ 6 knots.
Evidently the dent in the keel is still there, having been faired over when refitted back in 1997

If she can do that, the stuff fits onboard, she sails well for what she is, and both me and my wife like her, it will be a done deal.

37' Mast length I got from the spec sheet. It could in fact be a typo.

2 days sailing her should tell the real deal

Cheers !
Roy Pennington

P..S As far as Cats... no thanks... unless it can fly a hull.
Call me goofy but IMO half the fun of sailing is when the boat heels
__________________
Leeward Rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2009, 15:11   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeward Rail View Post

I like the location too, but the lack of even difficult replacement scares me. So there isn't much chance of corrosion due to condensation ?
main/day tank concept I like a lot. Cleaner fuel to the diesel.
What I do is suck out the bottom of the tank every spring. I have a hand pump I configured just for the job. The first year I sucked up about 1/3 cup of water. Since then, nothing. My understanding is that mild steel fuel tanks are fine. The fuel prevents rust.

I have a day tank too (aluminum), but so far I have had no occasion to resort to the day tank. I try to keep the main tank clean for obvious reasons.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2009, 16:17   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
How did the boat review go?
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 12:19   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiracer View Post
How did the boat review go?
Hey John,
Just got back.

Boat review was, both great and no so great.
The "not so great" is a function of our needs, not any reflection on the boat's condition or sail performance.

I'll post a more info later in the week or maybe early next week.
(Got to haul the camping gear out, check it, and then go get the daysailer out of it's winter storage in prep for the weekend)

Cheers,
Roy
__________________
Leeward Rail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2009, 12:53   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Roy,

OK, but if I gotta wait a week, the report had better be in triplicate.

Welcome home.
__________________

__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need opinions on AC units Oceantyme Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 11 15-08-2008 13:07
Opinions Welcome! Janny Monohull Sailboats 9 24-10-2007 18:47
Your opinions please Tim Whaley Monohull Sailboats 5 04-05-2007 04:30
Info on Garmin 498 C Sounder. Opinions? Transome mounted Transducer? Opinions? chuck711 Marine Electronics 0 14-01-2007 17:06
Looking for opinions on a Mason 44 Addison Monohull Sailboats 0 02-03-2006 19:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.