Bristol 32

[reed1v]

First, Westsail allowed orders for complete hull construction rather than in two pieces. Walter Cronkite ordered his as a compete hull construction. Way stronger. Our yard has seen several Hinckleys having lumps of fiberglass bonding in the interior sterns due to working of both sides. Not a pretty sight.
The CCA rules were basically racing rules and did result in pretty boats that could do the Marion Bermuda race in reasonable safety; and that was about it. NYYC has an extensive archive on why CCA was developed.

Pure cruising boats were usually one off designs with short bow and stern projections for cruising purposes: namely storage, comfort, and safety. Look at old sailing trawler designs. Extreme seaworthiness. You want to keep the hull in the water, not sailing over it(again unless your racing).

Perhaps the best analogy to use for you lubbers is whether you bother to ask if your new car has timing chains or timing belts. Timing chains make a bit more noise but will last longer than the car will. Timing belts, which are on most cars, need replacing ever 100k and do break with regularity, causing the engine to self destruct. So which would you want in your car if you plan to keep it forever?

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

Oilcanning has nothing to do with hull separation. You stated that there is an issue with the two halves off the hull separating. Either you should retract that comment, or produce some evidence.

Having said that, I don't even believe that oilcanning happened. It's extremely unlikely with the thick layup and that hull design.

Secondly, the 32 did not have an interior liner. It has wooden cabinetry, tabbed to the hull. There are no "stingers" (sic), as the cabinetry does that job.

What else don't you know?

Your ignorance is quite astounding. When Bristol first produced the 32 back in the 60s, it oil canned a lot in rough seas(think the gulf stream). In the 70s, they reworked the specs to add stringers forward to reduce this. And while the cabinetry was tabbed direct to the hull to add lateral support, the hull was otherwise filled in with liners, basically to hid the relatively rough layup.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yep.

That legend about boats laminated in halves all falling apart - where does it come from?

Have you ever seen such a boat split?

I have not.

b.

Neither have I, thank goodness. What will happen is, over time, reduced resistance to hull flex which, if sailed hard for long periods of time(think long distance cruising)can create all sorts of problems like external keels falling off(which we have seen and rescued folks from), longitudinal structural cracks running inside the hull, and so forth. Again if your a weekend warrior then any sailboat, regardless of layup will do. However, if your buying a 40 or 50 year old glass boat to sail in open ocean conditions, then get smart about what your buying.

[MarkSF]

I was wondering if you'd be kind enough to explain how the "external keel" can fall off a boat with a fully encapsulated keel. The entire keel is part of the hull, a continuation of the same fibreglass. Therefore the entire hull, on both sides of the keel, would have to snap. On a B32 this would require the simultaneous failure of about 20ft of substantial layup.

I think at this point you have proven beyond doubt that you know nothing about the subject.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

Oilcanning has nothing to do with hull separation. You stated that there is an issue with the two halves off the hull separating. Either you should retract that comment, or produce some evidence.

Having said that, I don't even believe that oilcanning happened. It's extremely unlikely with the thick layup and that hull design.

Secondly, the 32 did not have an interior liner. It has wooden cabinetry, tabbed to the hull. There are no "stingers" (sic), as the cabinetry does that job.

What else don't you know?

I too am puzzled by this. I wonder if we may be talking about two different boats. I have never heard of Bristols having these problems either.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Neither have I, thank goodness. What will happen is, over time, reduced resistance to hull flex which, if sailed hard for long periods of time(think long distance cruising)can create all sorts of problems like external keels falling off(which we have seen and rescued folks from), longitudinal structural cracks running inside the hull, and so forth. Again if your a weekend warrior then any sailboat, regardless of layup will do. However, if your buying a 40 or 50 year old glass boat to sail in open ocean conditions, then get smart about what your buying.

This is what you believe will happen over time.

But this is not what I have ever seen.

b.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

I was wondering if you'd be kind enough to explain how the "external keel" can fall off a boat with a fully encapsulated keel. The entire keel is part of the hull, a continuation of the same fibreglass. Therefore the entire hull, on both sides of the keel, would have to snap. On a B32 this would require the simultaneous failure of about 20ft of substantial layup.

I think at this point you have proven beyond doubt that you know nothing about the subject.

Was not referring to Bristols but to half hull layups with external keels. Since your in a combative frame of mind, guess you will not listen to anything but your own opinion.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

This is what you believe will happen over time.

But this is not what I have ever seen.

b.

Our yard in Maine has seen lots of old balsa cored decks become soggy. Hull flex, dried out sealant, cracks in gelcoats, flexing of stanchions, and so forth will let moisture into the core. Eventually the balsa, plywood, or sometimes just random wood fillings will rot away. Seems like its more prevalent with boats in southern waters that are used year round.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Our yard in Maine has seen lots of old balsa cored decks become soggy. Hull flex, dried out sealant, cracks in gelcoats, flexing of stanchions, and so forth will let moisture into the core. Eventually the balsa, plywood, or sometimes just random wood fillings will rot away. Seems like its more prevalent with boats in southern waters that are used year round.

This is off the point. The point was structural and keel problems resulting from building the hull in two halves.

Sure water ingress into the core will do damage but this is the same in one piece hulls (which, again, are not one piece as the deck is bonded). Also gelcoat cracks and sealant problems are common to all styles of layup.

And again I have seen no hard evidence, no pictures of B32 hulls split nor links to info on Bristol keels falling off. So, as it is, I put the above posts into the urban legend category.

And btw water ingress into the core is foremost an owner problem way more often than a boatyard problem. Many owners have very itchy hands and battery powered drill-machines but too little understanding of what sandwich construction is all about.

Cheers,
b.

[Shanachie]

I've owned a Bristol 30 for six years and operate the bristolsailboats.org web site. I've never heard of Bristols being built in two halves before. Therefore, I'm going to assume you are wrong, unless you have evidence.

Ericsons were built in two halves. That is well known. Perhaps you are confused?

Also, you seem to imply Bristols have balsa-cored hulls. That would be C&Cs. J boats and Tartans, among others. Again, confused? Generally, balsa-cored hulls are built in one piece.

Again, as others have noted, Bristols have internal ballast, not external keels. Another mistake?

For those who can tolerate limited space below, the Bristol 32 has proven itself to be a good bluewater cruiser. If you go to bristolsailboats.org, you will find several links to 32s that either have or are currently undertaking long voyages.

At least one 32 is currently doing a circumnavigation.

As for oil-canning, B.S. Anyone who has ever drilled a hole in a Bristol knows that. I have a couple of spots with rotted core in my cockpit. Makes no difference. The fiberglass is so thick that it doesn't give when I walk my 215 pounds on it.

There is a tired meme that these old CCA boats have inferior fiberglass work and are on their last legs. One guy on sailnet has been making these posts for at least 13 years.

Meanwhile, people are continuing to sail them across oceans. Obviously, they haven't gotten the word from armchair experts and continue to do what they shouldn't.

If you can stow all of your supplies, a smaller cabin is not bad in bluewater sailing. If you get thrown across a dockside condo in big seas, you are going to hurt.

The downside of the 32 is that because of its age, you will have to do upgrading if it hasn't been done already. The original wiring is substandard, for example.

Remember that 90 percent of the value of a boat is not in its hull and mast. It's in sails, cushions, engine, electronics, etc.

It's much better to pay more and buy a boat someone has already fixed up, rather than doing it yourself.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

I've owned a Bristol 30 for six years and operate the bristolsailboats.org web site. I've never heard of Bristols being built in two halves before. Therefore, I'm going to assume you are wrong, unless you have evidence.

Ericsons were built in two halves. That is well known. Perhaps you are confused?

Also, you seem to imply Bristols have balsa-cored hulls. That would be C&Cs. J boats and Tartans, among others. Again, confused? Generally, balsa-cored hulls are built in one piece.

Again, as others have noted, Bristols have internal ballast, not external keels. Another mistake?

For those who can tolerate limited space below, the Bristol 32 has proven itself to be a good bluewater cruiser. If you go to bristolsailboats.org, you will find several links to 32s that either have or are currently undertaking long voyages.

At least one 32 is currently doing a circumnavigation.

As for oil-canning, B.S. Anyone who has ever drilled a hole in a Bristol knows that. I have a couple of spots with rotted core in my cockpit. Makes no difference. The fiberglass is so thick that it doesn't give when I walk my 215 pounds on it.

There is a tired meme that these old CCA boats have inferior fiberglass work and are on their last legs. One guy on sailnet has been making these posts for at least 13 years.

Meanwhile, people are continuing to sail them across oceans. Obviously, they haven't gotten the word from armchair experts and continue to do what they shouldn't.

If you can stow all of your supplies, a smaller cabin is not bad in bluewater sailing. If you get thrown across a dockside condo in big seas, you are going to hurt.

The downside of the 32 is that because of its age, you will have to do upgrading if it hasn't been done already. The original wiring is substandard, for example.

Remember that 90 percent of the value of a boat is not in its hull and mast. It's in sails, cushions, engine, electronics, etc.

It's much better to pay more and buy a boat someone has already fixed up, rather than doing it yourself.

On the subject of the two halves, this review is the only reference to it that I have been able to find :

Bristol 35.5C - Boat Reviews Article

I have looked at my hull deck joint and it definitely is flanged inwards. I'm not sure it could have been made like this without the hull being made in two halves. How would you get it out of the mold?

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Old post but thought i would answer for those who are looking at B32s nowadays. First is construction. Two half hulls glued together do not make a strong hull. You really need a hull that is constructed as one piece. Secondly the design is for yacht club racing and not open ocean cruising. Yes you can sail the world on a log but eventually reality will catch up to you. Finally balsa cored decks that are 40 years old are going to be big failure points and lots of money to fix, assuming you live to tell the tail of when the two hull halfs started to buckle and wobble independent of each other. Cheap yes, safe no.

Some of the most ignorant statements I have ever read. You mention you are associated with a yard but I have my doubts, unless it's pushing a broom. My first two halved vessel was a Tartan (Douglas and McCloud) Blackwatch 37. 2 1/2" thick at the balloon, which is a term used as the bonding are at the hulls centerline. It was designed by Hood as an ocean racer and did well in all weather. Many CCA designs made excellent cruiser for years and many are still out there cruising. And by your profile, I am assuming you have only an opinion....not a boat. Common on this particular forum.
So I am wondering how many people have seen this "catching up" of hulls buckling. I haven't.
My Hallberg Rassy is also 2 halves. A friend on her sistership was just rammed by pirates in the South China Sea 1000 passed East Timor. The boat took a hit hard enough to fold the mast and later limped into Malaysia. He has been cruising a long time and states most other boats would have crumpled up and sunk. So I'm not buying any of your fantasy claims.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Neither have I, thank goodness. What will happen is, over time, reduced resistance to hull flex which, if sailed hard for long periods of time(think long distance cruising)can create all sorts of problems like external keels falling off(which we have seen and rescued folks from), longitudinal structural cracks running inside the hull, and so forth. Again if your a weekend warrior then any sailboat, regardless of layup will do. However, if your buying a 40 or 50 year old glass boat to sail in open ocean conditions, then get smart about what your buying.

I would love to see some pictures of these boats whose keels had fallen off and especially cracks inside the hull. I mean, I am assuming you took pictures for insurance purposes.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

On the subject of the two halves, this review is the only reference to it that I have been able to find :



Bristol 35.5C - Boat Reviews Article



I have looked at my hull deck joint and it definitely is flanged inwards. I'm not sure it could have been made like this without the hull being made in two halves. How would you get it out of the mold?

Could the mold be in 2 halves? I.e. after layup uncouple the 2 sides of mold and remove from hull with flange?



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[Shanachie]

I have copies of the Bristol brochures, and I could find no mention anywhere of this two-halves building technique.

I posted a question on the Yahoo Bristol list to see whether anyone knows any more.

The original source of this story about cracked hulls may have come from Webb Chiles' solo circumnavigation on an Ericson 35, Egregious. The boat was built in two halves and developed a leak where they were joined, according to his book.