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Old 18-04-2018, 16:00   #1
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bottom paint additive

BOTTOM PAINT ADDITIVES
This will sound crazy but in Florida i have heard, from a good source, that Horse
Dewormer can be added to bottom paint . The stuff is like toothpaste and I was told buy a case ? and put half in each gallon on SEA HAWK TROPIC for my 38 Morgan ?
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Old 18-04-2018, 19:15   #2
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Re: bottom paint additive

I add a pint of Sea Hawk Biocop TF to a gallon of Sea Hawk Cukote with great results. I guess the dewormer might help if your boat has worms
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Old 18-04-2018, 20:17   #3
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Re: bottom paint additive

A product that kills worms may kill marine growth, but for how long? And it may be illegal. The EPA made many working additives illegal. Most if not all can be bought from a chemical supply. Find someone with a clean bottom that doesn't haul often and ask them. Or look up historical bottom paint mixtures. Copper, tin and arsenic are 3.
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Old 19-04-2018, 01:47   #4
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Re: bottom paint additive

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Originally Posted by stnick View Post
BOTTOM PAINT ADDITIVES
This will sound crazy but in Florida i have heard, from a good source, that Horse
Dewormer can be added to bottom paint . The stuff is like toothpaste and I was told buy a case ? and put half in each gallon on SEA HAWK TROPIC for my 38 Morgan ?
Yes, it can be added, it will mix well but I dunno if it will be beneficial. Presumably the correct amount will be dependant on the hp of your engine .

If this works out well, please let us know; we will try some bottom paint in the horse feed
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Old 19-04-2018, 02:41   #5
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Re: bottom paint additive

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Originally Posted by stnick View Post
BOTTOM PAINT ADDITIVES
This will sound crazy but in Florida i have heard, from a good source, that Horse
Dewormer can be added to bottom paint . The stuff is like toothpaste and I was told buy a case ? and put half in each gallon on SEA HAWK TROPIC for my 38 Morgan ?
So when your source tested this over a suitable period of time did they also have a control area to compare the results to?

Did they previously try chilli pepper which was very avant garde at one time?
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Old 19-04-2018, 02:46   #6
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Re: bottom paint additive

If you look at paint manufacturer's product safety sheet they list the biocides by weight/liter along with L/D 50 rating. These days there's less and less cuprous oxide and noticeably more zinc oxide taking it's place.
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Old 19-04-2018, 04:06   #7
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Re: bottom paint additive

You spend a lot of $$$$$$$$ buying bottom paint and time to apply it. While doing the job you add some unknown, untested something to the paint not knowing if it will help, hurt, or cause the paint to not stick to the boat.

Well, to me that is just crazy!!!!

The paint people spend time and research to make their paints. If these "things" people add to it later really helped don't you think the manufacturers would already know about it. Plus the active ingredient that is in these user additives might already be in the paint (anyone know the chemical name for red pepper?).
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Old 19-04-2018, 04:06   #8
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Re: bottom paint additive

Sadly for Europe we have already seen some well known brands that work disappear as manufacturers scrabble to comply with the new EU rules coming into force on 1 Jun 18.

I have just managed to get 5L of Micron 77 at £200, which will last this year but next year isn't looking good with weaker and weaker antifoul paint.

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Old 19-04-2018, 04:13   #9
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Re: bottom paint additive

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Sadly for Europe we have already seen some well known brands that work disappear as manufacturers scrabble to comply with the new EU rules coming into force on 1 Jun 18.

I have just managed to get 5L of Micron 77 at £200, which will last this year but next year isn't looking good with weaker and weaker antifoul paint.

Pete
I still wouldn't add some unknown "stuff" to my expensive paint and risk it causing the paint to fall off in a month, or interfere with the active paint ingredients.
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Old 19-04-2018, 04:48   #10
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Re: bottom paint additive

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
The paint people spend time and research to make their paints. If these "things" people add to it later really helped don't you think the manufacturers would already know about it. Plus the active ingredient that is in these user additives might already be in the paint (anyone know the chemical name for red pepper?).
The main family of "hot" chemicals found in the chili peppers is well known. It's the capsaicinoid family. Typified by capsaicin. And the chemical name for that is well known: 8-methyl-N-vanillyl-6-nonenamide. You can read it about it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin

And for sure capsaicin is different from ivermectin, the active agent in dewormers such as horse dewormer. You can read about ivermectin here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Ivermectin is made to fit into the avermectin family of chemicals. First discovered by humans back in the 1970s, found as a chemical created by certain bacteria that use avermectins as part of the bacteria's chemical warfare strategy against things that try to kill it. Just like many of the antibiotics are used by bacteria and fungi to kill things that are trying to eat them.

So why might ivermectin be important and part of your future (aside from the current off-label uses it has to stop acne rosaceae and work to see if avermectins have anti-virus functions and might even have a role in controlling non-alcoholic fatty liver disease)?

Ivermectin works right well against certain invertebrates, including several types of parasitic worms, mites, and some insects.

We know that fouling on hulls in the sea starts with bacteria growing as a slime layer. That seems to prepare the ways for wide range of other organisms, including certain worms and crustaceans (e.g. barnacles).

See anything relevant? Ivermectin works against certain worms and several groups of arthropods (the big group of jointed legged animals that includes mites, ticks, spider, insects, and crustaceans).

Fancy that!

So my guess is that a veterinary physician who also boats saw the connection. And tried it out.

And probably the boffins in the chemical companies that make antifouling have not thought of ivermectin yet. Or been given the funding to run experiments.

Sounds just like the big pharmaceutical companies and medical researchers that are discovering new off-label uses for ivermectin, right?

As you correctly note, horse dewormer is not necessarily compatible with the chemistry of any particular antifouling. Adding anything to a complex coating such as an ablative antifouling has to have some threshold - over that threshold the paint for which you paid is just going to fall apart.

And even if ivermectin has some antifouling effect doesn't mean that whatever other agents in horse dewormer provide an optimum delivery medium for any antifouling function that ivermectin might have. And without environmental impact tests, no one knows what ivermectin might do in the marine environment.

So I'd vote against adding horse dewormer for now. But who knows if ivermectin might be in antifouling once day.
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Old 19-04-2018, 04:49   #11
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Re: bottom paint additive

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I still wouldn't add some unknown "stuff" to my expensive paint and risk it causing the paint to fall off in a month, or interfere with the active paint ingredients.
At £200 a pop I won't be either, but I am happy to read about the results in a years time.

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Old 19-04-2018, 06:04   #12
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Re: bottom paint additive

Back in the day we used to add tetracycline to bottom paint and it worked well. I went seven years on old Micron 66 (TBT) and tetracycline. Only a small waterline growth.
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Old 19-04-2018, 06:42   #13
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Re: bottom paint additive

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Back in the day we used to add tetracycline to bottom paint and it worked well. I went seven years on old Micron 66 (TBT) and tetracycline. Only a small waterline growth.
Starbrite "Compound X." It was pulled after several research papers showed that it didn't do anything. They also tested straight tetracycline. It was just a fad.

Micron 66 is good paint and the waters must have been pretty low-fouling.
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Old 19-04-2018, 07:43   #14
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Re: bottom paint additive

Im on the Anclote River in Tarpon Springs FL every 4 hours the current changes directions. First salt water than fresh !
The barnacles just set up shop and wait for food to pass buy !
Are not barnacles worms that have evolved to build shells ? Kill the worm no more shells.
This is being done i just need to find out what boat and talk to the owner or his diver, !
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Old 19-04-2018, 08:31   #15
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Re: bottom paint additive

The Virgin Islands, the Bahamas and the Keys call it what you will. But it was also TBT paint.
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