Bombigher - Shpountz is a good idea?

[Landlubber77]

Mercy for your replies, Francois!

I've got a lot of questions, may you can answer them.

At first about the material of the hull: I've seen a video log from "Sitting Bull" - which Shpountz 44 was sailing around the World - with steel hull.
- Is it possible?
- Which material the best, the safest, the most valuable for a Shpountz?
- Am I right, a steel hull is cheaper, then wooden ships? But what about the performance?

Ocean crossing: I've red a few reports about it, but I have some questions:
- Are these boats are really sailing well in high seas or storms?
- Have you ever been in a heavy weather with your boat?
- What about the handling them on rough seas?
- What about the speed (travelling/cruising)?

I am just thinking about a Spountz 38-40, because the look is fantastic - it is "love at first sight". But there are a lot of practical views, which can influence my decision.
I thinking about a boat, which is:
- great for living on it;
- great for travelling (anywhere, anytime);
- valuable, not so expensive, affordable.

If I decide at a Bombigher Shpountz 38-40, I would like to build a new one (that's why I asked you about the material). How much will it cost? Who can make it (or can help in it)?

Sorry for the "questiontsunami" - thanks for your advices!

Best regards!

Landlubber Z

[Shpountz73]

Mercy for your replies, Francois!

I've got a lot of questions, may you can answer them.

At first about the material of the hull: I've seen a video log from "Sitting Bull" - which Shpountz 44 was sailing around the World - with steel hull.
- Is it possible?
- Which material the best, the safest, the the most valuable for a Shpountz?
- Am I right, a steel hull is cheaper, then wooden ships? But what about the performance?

Ocean crossing: I've red a few reports about it, but I have some questions:
- Are these boats are really sailing well in high seas or storms?
- Have you ever been in a heavy weather with your boat?
- What about the handling them on rough seas?

I am just think about a Spountz 38-40, because the look fantastic - it was "love at first sight". But there are a lot of practical views, which can influence my decision.
I thinking about a boat, which is:
- great for living on it;
- great for travelling (anywhere, anytime);
- valuable, not so expensive, affordable.

If I decide at a Bombigher Shpountz 38-40, I would like to build a new one (that's why I asked you about the material). How much will it cost? Who can make it (or can help in it)?

Sorry for the "questiontsunami" - thanks for your advices!

Best regards!

Landlubber Z

Hello Landlubber
For an unknow reason I don't see your last post on the thread but only in my email...

Ok first "Sitting Bull" is in steel as you say. and it's a very heavy boat... It's not a Shpountz but it's from the same designer.

Almost all Shpountz are in wood . I don't know if it's cheaper than other material but for sure with wood you are able to repair a lot yourself... Everywhere in the world.
And it's strong enough. I went one time on rocks with Clin d'Oeil and after taking the boat out they was no damage. I can say you if my boat was in plastic I wouldn't have a boat anymore...

- Are these boats are really sailing well in high seas or storms?
- Have you ever been in a heavy weather with your boat?
- What about the handling them on rough seas?

The first time I took Clin d'Oeil for a long trip (2000 miles from Blankenberge to Sanary) I left Blankenberge by 8 beaufort and the wind goes up to 9/10 for 3 days... Sailing with a Genoa, the Misaine (don't know in english) and the main sail.
Nobody on the sea (other are not crazy...) I was sleeping for almost all the trip. (30 mn sleep and than a quick look)
The only problem is to take of the main sail if you receive back winds. But that's the same with every other boat.
I was several time in rough sea but I was always in confidence with my boat (not always with me )

I am just think about a Spountz 38-40, because the look fantastic - it was "love at first sight". But there are a lot of practical views, which can influence my decision.
I thinking about a boat, which is:
- great for living on it;
- great for travelling (anywhere, anytime);
- valuable, not so expensive, affordable.

For me it was also "love at first time" and I'm always in love with Clin d'Oeil.
Yes it's great to live on it for travelling anywhere.
Valuable ? Yes I think so
Not so expensive ? Yes I think that a Shpountz for 150/200 KEuros is not expensive for such a boat
Affordable ? It's depends what you mean... It's a boat...

If I decide at a Bombigher Shpountz 38-40, I would like to build a new one (that's why I asked you about the material). How much will it cost? Who can make it (or can help in it)?

Ok.... Big question !
Do you want to be a builder or a sailer ?
If you want to make a 38/40 you will need... 15 to 17... Years !
It will cost you around 100 KEuros (I don't count your time...) and nobody will help you for such a long period.... If you are maried, than be prepare to divorce because that's what I saw in 95% of the time. (I know only 2 couples who made it)
If you want to make one by a professional (I know one or two) it will cost you around 400 KEuros....
Everything is up to you.
I bought the draft (plan) to see... After 3 months of heavy thinking I was sure that I couldn't make a good one. So I searched one.

Hope this helps !

Cheers
Francois

[double u]

the "plank-on-frame" traditional building method for sure is the most difficult & challenging one, & wheras it's true that "...you are able to repair a lot yourself... Everywhere in the world..." you certainly have to be ABLE! traditional wooden boatbuilding is craftsmanship of the highest order!
"...I can say you if my boat was in plastic I wouldn't have a boat anymore..." - I'm not alone in thinking that a solidly built fibreglass boat (particularly one with the same loa/displ-ratio as a Shpountz!) will stand far more abuse!!!
btw: imho the Shpountzes are caricatures of the real thing:

[double u]

finally I hope adding the pic succeeds...

[Shpountz73]

Hello Double U

Everybody as is own opinion and that's the marvelous thing in this world.
My boat is perfect for me and yours is perfect for you.

Cheers
Francois

[double u]

you are absolutely right, but you have to be aware that the more "specialized" your choice of boat is the less you can recommend it to others, much less a beginner! (& if a classic gaff-rigged schooner of traditional wooden construction is not "spezialized" then I really don't know...)
(...& unfortunately no boat at the time...)

[Shpountz73]

I didn't recomend specialy a Shpountz.
This was my choice because I love such design and I've only one life...
I wanted a boat but I wanted this boat...
Are you sure epoxy is not difficult to handle???
It's quiet the same like wood.
Landluber asked question about Shpountz and I gived him answer about Shpountz.
I'm not specialised in "traditional wooden construction" but for the moment I could handle everything what happend on my boat.
And I know that Shpountz (when they are good build) are strong boats and I feel always good in hard weather.
It's only my opinion.

[Landlubber77]

Thanks again, these informations were unique! I'm repeating: now I'm just thinking on it - but your positive remarks were convincing.
By the way, I've seen late, that you're the owner of the Clin d'Oeil - she is beautiful, I was enjoying your short video many times!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYFSzxN3Gxg

Congratulations and endless happines for you (boat & captain)!

FWFS!

[Shpountz73]

Originally Posted by double u

finally I hope adding the pic succeeds...

Very nice boat !

[Shpountz73]

Originally Posted by Landlubber77

Thanks again, these informations were unique! I'm repeating: now I'm just thinking on it - but your positive remarks were convincing.
By the way, I've seen late, that you're the owner of the Clin d'Oeil - she is beautiful, I was enjoying your short video many times!

Congratulations and endless happines for you (boat & captain)!

FWFS!

Yes I'm the owner of Clin d'Oeil and it's a marvelous boat (but this is only my opinion )

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Landlubber77

Mercy for your replies, Francois!

I've got a lot of questions, may you can answer them.

At first about the material of the hull: I've seen a video log from "Sitting Bull" - which Shpountz 44 was sailing around the World - with steel hull.
- Is it possible?
- Which material the best, the safest, the most valuable for a Shpountz?
- Am I right, a steel hull is cheaper, then wooden ships? But what about the performance?

Ocean crossing: I've red a few reports about it, but I have some questions:
- Are these boats are really sailing well in high seas or storms?
- Have you ever been in a heavy weather with your boat?
- What about the handling them on rough seas?
- What about the speed (travelling/cruising)?

I am just thinking about a Spountz 38-40, because the look is fantastic - it is "love at first sight". But there are a lot of practical views, which can influence my decision.
I thinking about a boat, which is:
- great for living on it;
- great for travelling (anywhere, anytime);
- valuable, not so expensive, affordable.

If I decide at a Bombigher Shpountz 38-40, I would like to build a new one (that's why I asked you about the material). How much will it cost? Who can make it (or can help in it)?

Sorry for the "questiontsunami" - thanks for your advices!

Best regards!

Landlubber Z

I have a talk with Mr Coutand, a disciple who was handling Mr Bombigher's designs not too long ago, my inquiries are about Ti-Shpountz, Dixie Girl and Spray Dream in particular. So I just browse this site and saw this post, I register to post this here.

Mr Coutand mentioned to me that the Shpountz are conceived in the 80's where the cost of insurance is expensive and there is a school of thought would think that heavier boats would be safer at sea, the Shpountz are build in the traditional way and hence it is a heavier and more comfortable boat at the sea, but building by Shpountz this way is very expensive today and heavy to go fast, earlier of this thread you mention the possibility of singlehandling Shpountz 44, Mr Coutand told me that a Canadian does this and it would be very difficult for a single person without experience does this.

Now as I learn it would be difficult for a common person to sail a boat more than 30 tonne in displacement and an average person could handle max about 500 Sq Ft of main in Gaff and 400 Sq Ft in Bermuda, you might consider if you wanted a smaller boat. A larger boat say in the 15 meter on deck would be expensive to dock in Europe as the charges are higher, I think 10-12 meter would be ideal for a person to singlehandle, but if you really had to travel extensively or a liveabroad you would need about 42 feet or 12.5 or 13 meters above, despite what many cruisers here done on smaller boats, anything smaller would be uncomfortable to live on for average person. You also have to consider the fresh water carrying capacity, smaller boats carry less water for extended cruising.
The Ladies design is conceived to be build with plywood and is cheapest to build out of his 3 line of design, building the blue water variant of Dixie Girl can cost under 180k Euro I last ask, if you like classic looks you might consider Lady of Bermuda in his gaff rig variant, and Mr Coutand would be glad to offer his service of alteration anyway you like for a fee. The Girls design are lighter and faster than Shpountz but had a hard chine design underwater, some don't like the design, but I think it is not visible.

The Dream line is conceived after criticism of his boats are heavy and slow, they are the lightest of his design, build of cold molded, and featured the largest sail area, I think the Merry Dream can be build in lapstrake which is even cheaper and faster to build but I don't know how much it cost, the sail area would be too large for me to handle. For reference a Spray dream cost about 200k Euro depending on equipment.

I suspect that 40 feet over boats you are considering would cost about more than 200k Euro build new, at this price you can buy a new Hanse, Elan or Beneteau depending on tax though these factory boats wouldn't look as nice as wooden ones, the wooden ones also allows you to customize the design, and layout according to your needs. I like Mr Bombigher's designs since he had one of the most comfortable layout with plenty of spaces you can actually use, like U shape galley instead of the straight one, real shower/toilet for a boat at such size, and bed at a more comfortable position than at the fore, but you also have to consider it have to take a year or more to build your boat by a professional builder when you can immediately buy one.

Wooden boat can be easily and cheaper repaired as well as modify, but are susceptible to maintenance issue, ship worm, and wood rot etc, but they can be repaired, some boats over hundred years old are still sailing when they are put into shape, and there is a sense of membership if you are in the classic wooden boat world rather than production boats.
While steel is cheaper in the depressed price now, building in steel can be heavier and to me makes more sense for larger boats, say 45 feet or 50 feet above. They can be build much faster with just pieces welded, together and easy to repair with welders available around the world, but can be even more difficult to maintain for non commercial boats, since the boat are susceptible to electrolysis with steel on sea water and you cannot stop rust and the common rust tears you see on steel boats, you have to sand and paint them regularly.

Now in order to find out which is the right boat, you can figure how many times you are going to handle solo or taking how many guest, if you need a lot of fresh water for cruising or something lighter and easier to handle. You can feel free to contact Mr Coutand, and the plans can be flexible, its your boat, you can build it the way you wanted.

Currently, Ultramarine Yachts builds a few Bombigher's designs in India.
Traditional boats

[Landlubber77]

Shpountz73 and Wckoek!

I have learned a lot, thanks for Your advice! I think the main dilemma is between the gorgeous look of a Shpountz and the necessary proficiency in sailing (which I do not have yet)!
Daniel Z. Bombigher had an original genius in boat architecture, and for me the Shpountz is the peak of it. When I see them on a picture, or recall in my mind, I feel the urge to set sail straightaway and bound for the "Treasury-island" or to discover an unknown land. Sure, that everybody think the same, when looks on a Shpountz.

Thanks again - FWFS!

[double u]

"...Wooden boat can be easily and cheaper repaired...":
an absolutely ridiculous claim! changing a plank in a traditionally built wooden boat demands the peak of aboatbuilders skills

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Landlubber77

Shpountz73 and Wckoek!

I have learned a lot, thanks for Your advice! I think the main dilemma is between the gorgeous look of a Shpountz and the necessary proficiency in sailing (which I do not have yet)!
Daniel Z. Bombigher had an original genius in boat architecture, and for me the Shpountz is the peak of it. When I see them on a picture, or recall in my mind, I feel the urge to set sail straightaway and bound for the "Treasury-island" or to discover an unknown land. Sure, that everybody think the same, when looks on a Shpountz.

Thanks again - FWFS!

Yes, but I think it wasn't a hard skill to learn in a few weeks as it takes time to build one if you decide to have one build than buying a used boat.
Lady of Bermuda can still be handle by a person, but other larger boats can be difficult to handle if you travel extensively, getting tired and such.


As to whether wooden boat can be cheaply repair, at lease it can be repaired or stitch back anywhere in the world, not every places have fiberglass cloth, resin and can get you stranded for weeks for a repair, steel can be more cheaply and easily repaired but really hard to maintain for small non commercial boats.

[Wckoek]

There are newer and faster designs out there, but what I like is how the interior layout, I heard that Mr Bombigher spend years to design and layout a boat.
I have attached a pdf file of a boat off my dropbox to show:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xrthtmz94n...s%202.pdf?dl=0

Maybe you can charter a boat, you will learn something, know what you wanted on your boat, what you don't want, bigger or smaller boat.
You will gain more experience, or maybe just think that sailing is not for you at all.
Its not hard at all when you can specific what you want. There are actually many designs out there you can find.