Bombigher - Shpountz is a good idea?

[double u]

...far more intrigueing than his boats I found his "Zadigs universal utopic flag"...(which unfortunately does not seems to have found it's way into the net...)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Landlubber77

. . .
I am just thinking about a Spountz 38-40, because the look is fantastic - it is "love at first sight". But there are a lot of practical views, which can influence my decision.
I thinking about a boat, which is:
- great for living on it;
- great for travelling (anywhere, anytime);
- valuable, not so expensive, affordable. . . .

From the practical point of view, I think you want an Amel Super Maramu, which will incomparably easier to sail, more comfortable to live on, and cheaper to keep up, than this.

The Spountz is lovely, but really not a boat for a beginner, neither from the point of view of sailing it (especially short handed), nor maintaining it (complex and expensive).

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by double u

...far more intrigueing than his boats I found his "Zadigs universal utopic flag"...(which unfortunately does not seems to have found it's way into the net...)

It is correct to say, he is a romantic, has ideal, god bless his soul.
Another designer came into mind is William Garden, but I've only seen his smaller designs.

The Amel is a good suggestion but the cheapest you can get is about 250k and that is 20 years old, you have to spend money on refitting it, something close to over 300k. You can't really find boats like Hans Christian, Tayana for younger than 15-20 years old. The cost of keep up is really the same after all, I've gone through the process.

But many choose custom boat because they can customize the way they want and use, like how Bombigher does or how you like.

[Wckoek]

Many of these blue water cruisers like Super Marumu more than 10 years old are sailed to death and needed an amount of money refitting them, maintainance wise can be no easier or even more difficult.
You can get a used Beneteau or Jeanneau in recent years for cheap, but they don't carry more than 80 gallon fresh water, aren't equipped to sail far.

You can ask designer to redraw the rigging to be suited to be shorthanded and build the way you want, but difficult or impossible to do so in a production boat.

So I would say it is actually worthwhile to get the kind of boat and made the way you wanted and be happy. Of course there are people who just get any boat that can be used and go anywhere they like too, and you don't have to stick to Shpontz either.
Go to the sea, have a try, you will find out what you want.

[Landlubber77]

Dockhead & Wckoek!

Thanks, partly I agree with You! Looked after the Amel (and other kind of boats) too, but if I am aspiring for simplicity I could choose from many modern, brand new products (Jeanneau, Beneteau, Hanse...) in lower prices. A used Hallberg Rassy 43 could be bought under 100k. For a "twink sailor" landlubber maybe this is the best choice.

When I had found Bombigher's Shpountz on the net, I knew immediately that:
- Shpountz is the most beautiful "little tallship";
- I am not good enough for Her (yet);
- I need some experiences before starting with a Shpountz.

About some preceding viewpoints (and opinions):
- I red about steel hulls (the many type of it), that's why I contemplated on them, even in a classical architecture too (like Emerald Steel);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhANwn7M4VQ

- the choice of the material would be important in comparing the "Holy Trinity" (price, reliability, practicability);

- I'm opened for wooden hull, and I believe, that wooden ships can live long (if they are maintained carefully);
- I thinking on my yacht, which I can prepare, maintain dependably.

When I started this thread, I had some questions, what I wanted to be answered (maybe with some video evidences).

Material?

Using/practicability?

Price?

Speed? (For planning routes, but for the annoying situations, like pirates, escape, etc... too.)

Storms? (I have been missing the videos on Youtube, which was made on really rough seas, in heavy weather on the middle of the ocean, etc ... when the well-practiced seadogs are shaking their hands and are cursing something like that: ßä#Đ đ&@! or ߤ# ¤đ ä ßł&đĐ! etc...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUb6iOoWor4

How does a Shpountz performing in these conditions?

I red Anthea's diary and saw Her videolog (I think, the owners are a great couple), and found great pictures about "Le Pélican". Unquestionable: they are gorgeous!

GOELETTE ANTHEA

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfc...4pbb1DXQl9GIEw

Goélette Le Pélican – Saint-Raphaël |

But I need more evidences about their performances!

And yes, If I chose a Spountz, there would be some cannons too! Just for fun ... and for "Surprise"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDloAnIRfIU

[Shpountz73]

Originally Posted by double u

"...Wooden boat can be easily and cheaper repaired...":
an absolutely ridiculous claim! changing a plank in a traditionally built wooden boat demands the peak of aboatbuilders skills

You can not change a plank on a Shpountz....
You need to handle this an other way.
But you can handle this. A friend of mine has done it.

[Shpountz73]

Originally Posted by Landlubber77

How does a Shpountz performing in these conditions?

I red Anthea's diary and saw Her videolog (I think, the owners are a great couple),

Feel free to contact Gerard thrue is blog. He is a very good sailer and he knows the Shpountz better than me.
And you are right Gerard & Veronique are a great couple
And he can speack english without a problem.
You can say that I give you is name

Cheers

[Wckoek]

Landlubber, I think I made my point on steel, it is strong, cheaper and faster way to build, but I'm not sure it can be easy for a person to maintain as a yacht. Another disadvantage of steel is that it is difficult to build in round bilge, it is usually build in hard chine, so if you see Bombigher designs the ladies can be build in steel but Shpountz not suitable.

My experience with used lower price boat is no matter how quality it is there is always something needed to be fixed, you need to know how to examine or find a surveyed to look at the boat and figure out how much it cost to fix, or fix it yourself like many member here does. Some people have the time, space and talent to fix things, unfortunately I don't. New boats are very expensive, but you will hear stories that fixing used boats can be just as expensive too.

Another thing is that these are custom boats build to plans, so one on one basis people customize it to their needs, draft, size, sail plan. It can be made split rig, smaller plan, Bermuda, gaff can be simple to handle or faster but with bigger sail plans. On all cruisers you expect something like 5-7 knots, not something you can easily run away from power boat pirates.

The Spray Dream and the Merry dream can be faster as the design is lighter and have larger sail plan.

You want a comfortable, slightly cruiser or a faster one for regatta it is for you to find out, bear in mind each Bombigher design can be fitted with smaller cruising sail rig and the full regatta plan, like it listed the pdf I uploaded. Try out different boats and figure out your budget, maybe you can ask the shipyard too.

If you like classic boat designs you can look at the design of Paul Gartside, or even older designs like William Atkins, William Garden, Herreshoff, Luke Powell had some pilot cutter plans though there is no interior layout.
If you really like "tall ship" looks there are rover schooners but they are build in steel and larger in size, I'm not sure it is made for single handlers.

What we can give is only our opinions, you have to figure out what you want. Any boat will take you to the destination, it just depends on how you wanted the process and the journey to be like.

[Wckoek]

I forgot to mention that wooden boat can be fiberglassed on the hull provided it is new, it would be as good as fiberglass boats.
It would cost more if your boat is larger though.

[Shpountz73]

But you don't need to fiberglass a Shpountz it's strong enough !

[Landlubber77]

Okay, thanks guys for replies to my question, I think, I got the most important information, what I need.
I have to confess - all apologies - that at the moment my budget is empty. But I am playing industriously lottery...
I have to be prepared, when Fortuna will kiss my forehead - ready to sail around the Globe!

Thanks again, and FWFS!

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Landlubber77

When I had found Bombigher's Shpountz on the net, I knew immediately that:
- Shpountz is the most beautiful "little tallship";

You can of course always sail on a rail tall ship. You don't need to own one. Some of my most memorable sails were aboard the Oosterschelde, a large three masted schooner. And yes, that's a boat one can fall in love with as well.

[Landlubber77]

K V B!

Yes, that's true! This one of my favorite videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE4EKQ35gO8

Stad Amsterdam's transatlantic route is on the bucket-list:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AJ4G8m0N-0

[GaffRigSaltie]

Hi Landlubber,

As the owner of a Bombigher Spray Dream for 13 years, I think I can help a little.

First, let nobody tell you that this or that is impossible. All you need is the passion, i.e. the will to learn as you go, over years. I had this boat built (by Ultramarine) as my first wooden boat with no prior knowledge and acquired the skills. I love it. Wood requires little maintenance in the first 10 years of a new boat's life. You'll be ready.

But if you want instant gratification, go for production.

Otherwise, what will happen is that you will use the engine a lot the first few months, then start using the main and jib, then little by little more and more sails in more and more wind. You will take your time and start with coastal navigation -one day hops, then two, then three. In that scenario with modern weather forecasting, copping a storm is pretty unlikely.

Again: Just take your time and put safety first. A production boat would be no different (especially as they're often not heavy displacement hulls i.e. not safer).

With regards to repairs: Learning to measure and cut pieces cedar and teak accurately is not hard. Neither is how to screw and glue properly (the glue being epoxy resin, the same material used in fiberglass boats anyway). If I did it, so can you. We've been doing it for 2,000 years!

But it does require reading books, experimenting in the shed, watching youtube videos, going on the wooden boat forum and Facebook wooden boat group, asking questions. Find a boat building school, they have awesome continuous learning and summer programmes. Find wooden boat owners who will only be too happy to help (case in point lol). Find my handle on Facebook, I'll introduce you to a few.

Also, these boats come with extremely detailed plans on multiple A1 sheets showing every last piece of everything down to the last block.

Regarding building your own: The majority of the 200+ Shpountz that are out there have been built by amateurs (only 1 has ever sunk btw, called Le Rapaz, after being abandoned for years). I know a Dutch guy building one right now. Lionel Mallard, the owner of Ultramarine, did exactly that 30 years ago. Daniel Bombigher wrote a 200 page step by step guide on how to do it. But it does take years and requires huge commitment. You have to want to become a boat builder first. That fire in your belly, you know what I mean?

Now regarding size: The 44-40 (so named after the Winchester model 1873, his favourite rifle) is a 50 footer, 60 feet if you count the bowsprit. It's a lot of boat to handle, no different than a Beneteau. If that's what your passion dictates, do it. Plenty have, believe me. But learn seriously. The dividends are magnificent. These boats are simply not in the same league as le plastique fantastique.

Amities,

Gaff Rig Saltie (ca c'est untraduisible !)

[double u]

"...But it does take years and requires huge commitment. You have to want to become a boat builder first. That fire in your belly, you know what I mean?..."
already much-less-demanding-2-build boats require that...
lot & lots & lots of people hugely overestimated the size of their "fire"...