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10-12-2016, 10:42
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: pittsburgh PA
Boat: Nauticat 321 Pilothouse
Posts: 110
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
what's with the rust round all of the keel bolts? in 40 years of owning boats i have never seen rust around any of my keel bolts--let alone all of them. this boat may need lots of $$$$$$ work if keel bolts are rusted. and lack of support from a rusted keel bolt or 2 may cause the 'catalina smile' you are seeing.
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10-12-2016, 11:08
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: X Yacht, 1 ton, 40'
Posts: 68
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
My boat has a fin keel and the first time I had it hauled the yard was very careful not to have any weight put on the keel...all the weight was on the stands. My 12000 lbs was supported by about 12 stands I recall.
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10-12-2016, 11:11
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 3,101
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
I owned a heavily built Pearson 30, and my first winter (2010?) on the hard (Canada) there was some noticeable distortion in the hull near the chainplates. I was really worried. I inspected everywhere...nothing...but still these noticeable "ripples" in the hull. Long story short, they disappeared once launched and never came back again. I continued to inspect and never found a trace of damage or the cause. The boat is still sailing (with a new owner) and the distortion has not returned.
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10-12-2016, 11:12
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: California Central Coast
Boat: Pacific Seacraft, Dana, 24
Posts: 81
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
Hello Dougtiff- didn't know you were on the forum.
Ken/Morro Bay
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10-12-2016, 11:20
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 3,101
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
The "smile" at the leading edge of a keel is common. Look for damage at the aft end of the keel (where it meets the hull). A serious grounding will cause compression there...look for cracks.
I don't like the look of the keel bolts. It looks like the rust is creeping up from below, indicating water intrusion into the keel bolts. If the bilge is generally wet (common on a boat that size) I would prefer to see a more even distribution of corrosion. And I agree, the backing plates are too small.
There is no way to check the keel bolts without cutting open the keel. Your best bet is to look at the manufacturer and model and search online for info on problems or failures.
If the boat hit a big rock and was damaged, the clues will be there...look carefully.
And finally, I suppose you could make an offer with a condition that the distortion disappears after launch within X days. But I bet the seller would not like that at all. At the very least, the risk you take should be worth a few thousand dollars off the sale price.
Good luck, and please let us know what happens.
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10-12-2016, 15:36
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 474
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
With an iron or steel keel you will invariably have rust, likely at the keel bolts and ask over the surface of the keel itself. Beneteaus are notorious for it, but it's not a big deal really unless you are trying to maintain a racing bottom.
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10-12-2016, 15:41
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 474
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
Quote:
Originally Posted by grjfield
My boat has a fin keel and the first time I had it hauled the yard was very careful not to have any weight put on the keel...all the weight was on the stands. My 12000 lbs was supported by about 12 stands I recall.
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Why? Unless a naval architect or manufacturer specifically wanted the boat blocked in this manner it is not typically the way it's done due to risk of laminate damage.
A custom cradle can evenly distribute the weight, but balancing all the weight of a boat on the jack stands is asking for trouble on anything bigger than a small runabout.
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10-12-2016, 20:40
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Manila, California
Boat: Cape George pilothouse 36 and a Cape Dory 25
Posts: 608
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
If the price was right I would not be concerned with the future integrity of the boat. Many production boats have suffered from poor hull to keel connections and can be fixed. The keel on a fin keel boat is a separate piece from the hull anyway. Many are not, or maybe I should say many were not, even glassed to the hull and were only caulked and the keel bolts tightened. That's what I think.
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10-12-2016, 21:15
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#24
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Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Boat: Sea Hunt 234 Ultra
Posts: 3,962
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
The rust on the keel bolts concerns me as well:
Crevice corrosion is a serious issue, I have seen SS bolts snap with a few lbs of torque when replacing my cockpit winches.
Let the seller replace those bolts, backing plates, washers and nuts, then have a surveyor look closely at it afterwards.
As for the hull flexing and doors not closing, fairly normal when on the hard.
Boats are designed, more or less, to rest on their keels, like mentioned above.
Still, look for cracks, some boats were so poorly built that the hull would collapse if challenged that way, but the brand is well known for that.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
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01-01-2017, 10:23
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 33
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
Had the survey done! Keel bolts, and keel and IGU checked out fine with the surveyor.
Engine, electrics, taking water on, ports, rigging, appliances all showing signs of needing TLC and correcting :s
Neglect is showing and expecting a stubborn response from any further negotiating
Likely on to the next boat hunt - thanks again for all of yours inputs
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01-01-2017, 11:18
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bumping around the Caribbean
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,625
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
I've seen that "smile" on a good number of Bene's, some that were relatively new and had never hit a thing. It's not considered a structural flaw, and most owners just fill and fair the gap and move on.
While most boats should rest on the keel, how the keel is blocked and supported can be very important. On my boat, for example and which has stub mounted lead, the primary load should be 1/3 of the way back from the leading edge of the keel.
Yeah, rusted keel bolts are a big red flag. You basically need to replace them if you want to have any confidence in them and it's NOT cheap.
Neglected boats are a can of worms and unfortunately seem to be magnets for inexperienced boat buyers. They don't appreciate that for every problem they can actually see there are probably five more that they cannot.
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01-01-2017, 11:58
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Whitby, Canada
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 2,251
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Re: Boatyard storage shoring jack stand error
Quote:
Originally Posted by grjfield
My boat has a fin keel and the first time I had it hauled the yard was very careful not to have any weight put on the keel...all the weight was on the stands. My 12000 lbs was supported by about 12 stands I recall.
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You may come to regret that in the spring! Watch out for oil canning. Your keel is supposed to support ALL the weight of the host, the stands only job is to keep the boat balanced upright!
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