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Old 21-03-2013, 02:29   #46
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

The issue if boats falling over while on jack stands in dry storage is very controversial.

During Hurricane Marty (September 2003) in La Paz, BCS, Mexico several boats in dry storage with masts erect, as required by their insurance company for hurricane season, fell off their jack stands or the ground washed away under their jack stands and the boats toppled.

As described above the toppling boats knocked over adjacent boats or the mast of the fallen boat damaged boats in the next row over.

I personally knew several owners who received no insurance payout because the boat falling off the jack stands was an "act of god" yet they would also have received no payout if their boat had remained in the water.

What they insurance company really meant was "in case of a named storm we will only provide insurance coverage if your boat suffers no damage"
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Old 21-03-2013, 02:46   #47
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
And this is why I carry just liability insurance on two boats and OBTW, we have a family umbrella policy just in case someone wants to play the lottery with us.

I view these insurances as a hedge against loosing everything.
If you are travelling outside the US have a look at the fine print on you umbrella - it might not cover you while you are cruising in foreign waters.
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Old 21-03-2013, 04:26   #48
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BoatUS is the company I love to hate. Though I gladly renew my towing insurance with them every year and have been pleased with their service the two times I have needed it, I find the restrictions, requirements and pricing of their insurance to be completely ridiculous. And the fact that they keep soliciting me to buy their insurance - after I tried to make it clear to them that I think they're nuts - is a bit irritating.
+1. I reluctantly renewed the towing last year, which I've never used in 6 years (knock on wood). That was after i had inquired about insurance with them only to discover it would cost me 3x my current premium. boatUS said this was because I'd had one relatively small claim on an uninsured boater who hit me. we had a Fairly epic go around but still they never miss a chance to pitch their insurance. (And full disclosure: this post goes toward fulfilling my promise to them that I'd let others know of how shabbily they treated me).
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Old 21-03-2013, 07:08   #49
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
Al (Golden), would you insure an inexperienced doublehanded crew for an ocean-crossing? I vaguely recall discussing this with you a long time ago, but I could be mistaken. I'm interested in the parameters.
The basic Jackline parameters require 3 years of ownership in similar size (within 10') and type (mono to mono, multi to multi). We've waived that requirement numerous times when the résumé warrants an exception (several bareboat charters in size and type for instance). However, Jackline is our premier program, and other carriers that we represent have less stringent requirements.

The Jackline policy itself requires a minimum of 2 POBs, but other carriers generally do not specify anything in their policy forms, but depend on the Seaworthiness clause to protect themselves, or make 3 or 4 crew a requirement of their quotation.
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Old 21-03-2013, 08:34   #50
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

RE: The TowBoat/US charges.
TowBoat/US and I think every other towing service charges from the time they leave their dock until the time they release you from the tow (ungrounded or tied to a fuel dock). So although charging $600 to move a boat 1 nm to a fuel dock sounds outrageous it may be less so if the tower had to come 40 nm to pick up the stranded boat. The basic $50 coverage that is included in the Boat/US membership is pretty useless (except to save you $50 off the total bill). That coverage only works if you get stranded within sight of both the Towing provider's dock and your destination. Otherwise you will get a big bill.
I've used TowBoat/US three times in the last 12 years. Those three tows more than offset the cost of 9 years of premiums (3 of those 12 years were spent in Europe with no coverage).

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Old 21-03-2013, 09:03   #51
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
It is hard for me to understand the BoatUS requirement you describe.

I have made four sailboat trips from Seattle to San Diego and two down to Mexico and back.

Boat US insured me single handed and with a two person crew

2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006

At the time of the first trip I had been sailing for 30 years with no claims and by the time I did the single handed trip I had over 5,000 miles of documented single handing experience

I have spent a lot of time talking to Boat US underwriters and they seem to have a very good understanding of US West Coast Pacific sailing - have you personally talked with an underwriter rather than a insurance sales person?
The difference is probably coastal versus water sailing">blue water sailing. When I am within my policy's navigational limits (the top of Vancouver Island to the Mexican border I think) there are no crew restrictions. It's only for the Hawaii-type trips that they insisted on a competent crew.

For my first Hawaii trip I would *not* have qualified (doublehanded) for Al's Jackline policy.
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Old 21-03-2013, 09:04   #52
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

do not add towng insurance to your international cruising policy--there is no towboat us here in mexico---kedge or use a passing panga or your own dinghy to save self. is always a goood practice anyway.
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Old 21-03-2013, 09:05   #53
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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The difference is probably coastal versus blue water sailing. When I am within my policy's navigational limits (the top of Vancouver Island to the Mexican border I think) there are no crew restrictions. It's only for the Hawaii-type trips that they insisted on a competent crew.

For my first Hawaii trip I would *not* have qualified (doublehanded) for Al's Jackline policy.
I have no idea why my above posting is garbled (at least it is when I read it back).

I am attempting to type: [coastal] [versus] [blue] [water] [sailing]
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Old 21-03-2013, 09:26   #54
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

I have only used Boat US to tow my boat once. We were in Avalon on Catalina island. Engine broke, could have sailed, but had dead batteries, so would have been without lights, or instruments. Needed to get to Oceanside, Ca. where the Yanmar mechanic was. This was about a 50 mile tow, all it cost was a signature on the paperwork. I asked the tow boat driver what it would have cost, he told me about $2500 to $3000.

I was very satisfied with the price of the insurance, and we are still insured by them 5 years later.
They do have limits, and I stay within them.
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Old 21-03-2013, 09:34   #55
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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Now this is worrisome. I upgraded to the "Unlimited" package when I first bought my boat since I was moving it 1000 miles down the ICW to FL, on a schedule and was not yet confident in the machinery. From reading the BoatUS website it sounds like they would pay for the whole towing bill.

So can you give more details on why they wanted to charge you $600? Did you have the Basic, Unlimited, or Gold package? Had you "violated" some rule or restriction on the coverage?
Unfortunately it was 3 -4 years ago. Their coverage seems mis leading as heck to me, but that's just an opinion... I suppose if you understand legalese you can figure it out. I'm not 100% sure but I think I had the middle package. Iwas actually on the water way in Miami.... so if that's not in their "covered area" I dont know what is! I only needed a tow about 1 mile in flat ICW water. Not an at risk situation at all. I was out of Diesel. (new boat, bad gauge, higher fuel burn than I estimated).
A boat that overheard my VHF call to Boat US was kind enough to call and tell me they would charge me $600. I hailed Boat US on the VHF after that and canceled. They said they would come by anyway, so when they did I asked them how much it would cost me.
I just pulled off the waterway and anchored for the night and went and got 5 gal in the dink the next morning.... it was nearing dark anyway.
I cant imagine a simpler tow job.
By comparison, in 1999 I had Towboat towing insurance. I grounded on a hard sandbar in my 47 Passport, near the Stadium in Biscayne Bay. He came out and spent about 45 mins dragging me off including having to hook up to my spare halyard to hell the boat as well as a tow bridle. Got me off fine. NO charge, covered by my $100 a year insurance.
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Old 21-03-2013, 09:37   #56
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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Originally Posted by jstevens View Post
RE: The TowBoat/US charges.
TowBoat/US and I think every other towing service charges from the time they leave their dock until the time they release you from the tow (ungrounded or tied to a fuel dock). So although charging $600 to move a boat 1 nm to a fuel dock sounds outrageous it may be less so if the tower had to come 40 nm to pick up the stranded boat. The basic $50 coverage that is included in the Boat/US membership is pretty useless (except to save you $50 off the total bill). That coverage only works if you get stranded within sight of both the Towing provider's dock and your destination. Otherwise you will get a big bill.
I've used TowBoat/US three times in the last 12 years. Those three tows more than offset the cost of 9 years of premiums (3 of those 12 years were spent in Europe with no coverage).

John
They dont (cant?) charge until you are hooked up to them. Maybe then they charge for the travel time, I dont know.
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Old 21-03-2013, 09:54   #57
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

I like SeaTow.
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Old 24-03-2013, 09:46   #58
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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Yeah, I kinda agree with Lake Superior... If you are too scared to sail your boat without insurance then you shouldn't be at sea anyway.

If its not fear and just risk spreading then find a company that suits you, or assume the risk yourself, I.e. go uninsured.
I couldn't have said it better myself...
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Old 24-03-2013, 09:56   #59
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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They dont (cant?) charge until you are hooked up to them. Maybe then they charge for the travel time, I dont know.
IIRC, BoatUS 'unlimited' towing is only unlimited in the number of tows but capped @ $2500 on any one tow.
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Old 24-03-2013, 23:53   #60
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Re: BoatUS wants 3 people on board while cruising in Mexico?

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Yeah, I kinda agree with Lake Superior... If you are too scared to sail your boat without insurance then you shouldn't be at sea anyway.

If its not fear and just risk spreading then find a company that suits you, or assume the risk yourself, I.e. go uninsured.

So does that mean you have liability only insurance on your car? Because ya know, if you want full coverage that means you are not confident enough to be driving?

I want to protect my boat as an asset. Simple as that. Its not a matter of my seamanship skills as I have a healthy respect for mother nature and the plethora of situations that could cause me finacial hardship.

I'm making this trip with or without insurance. I'm just doing the due dilligence now to ensure I'm protected if its not cost prohibited. At this stage im researching and getting more information.
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