Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-01-2016, 03:40   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Boat: Ericson 27, 1978
Posts: 47
Images: 5
Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

I've had to sell my Ericson 27 (See the link to see some sailing of it: https://www.youtube.com/user/billybobhack). Yet, I keep my eye on sailboatlistings.com, yacthworld.com, and CL. I bought my Ericson because it had a new motor with only 186 hours on it. People told me I could make more money than I paid for the boat just selling the motor. I didn't of course.

So my question is, as I imagine owning another sailboat, "What to think of rebuilt motors in a boat?"
__________________

__________________
Oceanbrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2016, 15:34   #2
Registered User
 
Orion Jim's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Noank, Ct. USA
Boat: Cape Dory 31
Posts: 1,075
Images: 6
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

There are rebuilds and there are rebuilds. For a rebuild to have any value to me it must be done by a factory certified mechanic from a brick and mortar business with a written warrantee. Everything else is a wish and a prayer and not worth investing MY hard earned dollars in.
The original invoice would be required to verify the extent of the rebuild. There are lots of shade tree mechanics out there, myself included. They don't add value to an engine, nor are their professionalism or parts reliably sourced.
__________________

__________________
Orion Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 06:13   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: vessel sold at LAKES ENTRANCE to a local. Currently nursing my 93 Y/o mother in Sydney. Next boat probably will be bought in the U.S.
Boat: triton 721 24' x 9' 1985 Cutter rigged.
Posts: 922
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Oceanbrew. First my credentials. When I stopped work in abt 1989 I was service manager at a Sydney Mercedes Benz dealer.
You don't become that by bieng just your average mechanic.
ONLY A NEW MOTOR is a new motor, a virtually perfect thing.
As Jim said, there are sooo many variations of the "fully rec'd motor" theme/claim.
VERY FEW supposedly reconditioned motors will have had the crankshaft regroung, the rocker arm bushes replaced, the valve guides, injectors fully overhauled....I could write for 6 hours and not cover the things which, in a supposed recon motor, could let you down. Oil pump overhauled, timing chain, on and on and on.

Many people, be they mechanics building an engine for the marker, mechanics rebuilding an engine to a price because the person paying the bill says " look, just make sure it runs for 100hrs and starts well ok!!"

Hundred of variables.
Even a Bukh, repuilt at the authorised dealer, will NEVER EVER, have every part of the engine replaced.
The rocker arms may have been resurfaced, maybe their bushes replaced, maybe not.
And in my opinion Bukh are the best.

Never expect any recon motor to last as long as a new one, factory or no factory.

You cant get a 20,000 dollar motor, or car ,or helicopter for 6,000.

You want the best lawyer in town?? Pay triple.

Back to you friend. Pm me if you want further advice, I'll give you my email adress.
I'm a 69 y/0 half worn out aussie vietnam veteran
Cheers
__________________
brianlara 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 07:01   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Orential N.C.
Boat: 1981 Morgan OI 41
Posts: 162
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Brianlara 3 is right I've installed 2 reman motors from 2 different places (NAPA and Auto Zone) but they are just re-sellers so I don't know where the motor came from. Both of them failed within 1,000 miles and both were replaced under warranty and both lasted till I retired the vehicles. It's a crap shoot even a factory new motor can fail.
I'd say if the motor had a couple or three hundred hours on it you'd be OK but in the back or your mind you may never trust it.

I've built motors that ran and lasted like a new one and I've built 1 or2 that didn't. IIRC 1 a ring broke after a few hours that may or may not have been my fault, the other some dummy forgot to put oil in.......Me, so it was my fault, I let someone distract me.

That being said I wouldn't walk away from THE boat that I wanted because of it.
__________________
Salty Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 07:26   #5
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

i bought this boat(formosa 41) with a severely holed block and replaced the engine, then it ranaway and now i have THE best 4-108 in life.
if you love the boat, do it.
if you have no passion for the boat, walk. is your choice as you are the one to have to live with the choice you make.
have fun' ericson 27s sail awesome well.
zeehag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 08:04   #6
Registered User
 
Lizzy Belle's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Netherlands
Boat: Ohlson 29
Posts: 1,522
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbrew View Post
I bought my Ericson because it had a new motor with only 186 hours on it. // "What to think of rebuilt motors in a boat?"
As posted, there are rebuilds and rebuilds.
Usually when a boat has an older engine, a seller will claim "rebuild" - which (at least here) can mean anything from a spray paint job to an actual professional rebuild.

The engine hrs, I don't really care too much about; it doesn't say much about the condition the engine is in. I've seen engines with only a few hrs on them, but also no care given, sitting in a dirty compartment ...
In other words: I'd never buy a boat cos of the engine hrs, to be honest.
I buy a boat because of ... well, the boat
Whatever state the engine is in will be reflected in what I'm willing to pay.

My current boat has a Volvo Penta MD6A - talk about old haha! It wasn't rebuild, nor was it sold as such. I won't mention the hrs - not polite after a certain number
It was very well maintained and clean tho, which I did pay attention to. Most engines I've seen in older boats aren't ...

The MD6A is very Fred Flintstone, but it's also a very basic engine that does it's job. I like the fact that it's basic - even I was able to learn how to maintain it and fix minor issues.
Some people love it has a hand crank starter - I bet ya these people have never tried to start an engine that way

At some point, I might need a new (to me) engine, but so far the old gal seems more then happy to do her job. She gets all the TLC she needs, and spare parts are fairly ease to come by (here) and affordable. Me happy.
__________________
"Il faut Ítre toujours ivre." - Charles Baudelaire
Dutch ♀ Liveaboard, sharing an Ohlson 29 with a feline.
Lizzy Belle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 08:16   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Orential N.C.
Boat: 1981 Morgan OI 41
Posts: 162
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

HUmmm so how many are a lot of hours on these little diesels I looked at one that had 3,300 on it I somehow equated that to 150,000 to200,000 miles on the road, with a road motor it's just getting broke in if it were maintained properly.
So if maintained the way it should be and nothing stupid happens what do Y'all get out of them.
__________________
Salty Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 08:24   #8
Registered User
 
Lizzy Belle's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Netherlands
Boat: Ohlson 29
Posts: 1,522
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Mike View Post
So if maintained the way it should be and nothing stupid happens what do Y'all get out of them.
My Flintstone engine will probably outlive me ...
Also, I like KISS, and this is definitely a very basic engine.
__________________
"Il faut Ítre toujours ivre." - Charles Baudelaire
Dutch ♀ Liveaboard, sharing an Ohlson 29 with a feline.
Lizzy Belle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 08:33   #9
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

anywhere from 3000 miles for badly aligned and not secured and failing engine to forever, depending on your use and maintenance practices. (3000 miles at 1.8 - 3 nautical miles per hour.. you do math. most was under 2 nm/hr)
zeehag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 08:38   #10
Registered User
 
appick's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Boat: 1973 Easterly 36
Posts: 446
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

I've run boats with engines with less than 500hrs on them that had tons of problems. I've also had boats with engines that were 50 plus year old Atomic 4 with 1 rebuild done 15 years before I bought it that ran like a fine swiss clock.

I'm a very hands on kinda guy and had the experience of working as an auto mechanic for 8 years. I also bought motorcycles and rebuilt engines for them and rode then sold them. I usually buy cars with bad engines and fix them to get the car for cheap and make money on it when I'm done driving it after 3 years.

For me pulling something apart that needs fixing is fun and I've gotten pretty good at it. When I rebuild a motor whether I plan on keeping it or not I have a certain methodology. Take the engine block measure and spec it out. Then replace anything that can be replaced. I never saw the logic in boring cylinders, new lifters, new valves, and crank and cam bearings, and saving $150 by not replacing the timing chain set as an example. When I get done rebuilding a engine it runs great every time as long as I didn't do something wrong lol . So for me having a rebuilt engine on a yacht of course take it with a grain of salt but if it came from a shop that does it for a living with a receipt it might be good. Proof is in the pudding as they say. If it runs good then roll with it, don't worry too much about it. If it smokes and doesn't develop enough power ect then it's probably questionable.

It wouldn't hurt to take a course on engine repair at a tech school or to grab a cheap motorcycle, outboard, or whatever and tear into it. Get familiar with engines and the mysticism that you view them with will disappear.

My current engine that I trust on my boat is the original 1973 Westerbeke 4-91. Same engine as the London Taxi cabs of old, originally adapted from an English tractor manufacturer. Dead simple they even sell kits to rebuild the injector pump yourself! Most engines injector pumps are a return to manufacturer to rebuild item. Other than cleaning and replacing filters, belts, and a water pump impeller due to some years not being in service, it's ran flawlessly for hundreds of hours for me.

Well enough rambling, with engines taking good care of them is half the battle. Making sure they run correctly and are operating at temp and the proper RPM is huge, other than that reliability comes down to proper maintenance and a little luck.
__________________
"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." Antoine de
appick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 09:25   #11
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,056
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

The key is properly maintained, almost none are.
I have never had any non racing engine fail on me, ever. I have put 250,000 miles on automobile engines too, I usually "over maintain" an engine though, I change oil every 100 hours for example.
There is a huge difference between what the average engine is capable of life wise and the average lifespan of an engine, and I believe the biggest multiplier is maintenance, preventative maintenance, not fix it when it breaks.
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 10:22   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Diesels are fairly easy to rebuild. Just do an oil test. We had stationary diesels that ran over 300,000 hours with two rebuilds. Rebuilt can be anything from changing compression seals to complete block dismantling. Most rebuilds are for valves, cams, and seals. Change all three and you virtually have a like new engine(operational, not looks).

With any used diesel, an oil sample should be taken to a lab for analysis. Generally speaking, its hard to mess up with diesel engines; and in fact, the older, the better. Clean fuel, regular oil change, and fresh air. That is about it. Keep tanks polished, put on a series of oil filters, and provide an air snorkel and your engine should go 60,000 to over 100,000 hours. Basically a lot longer than you will own the boat.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 10:59   #13
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Jim View Post
There are rebuilds and there are rebuilds. For a rebuild to have any value to me it must be done by a factory certified mechanic from a brick and mortar business with a written warrantee. Everything else is a wish and a prayer and not worth investing MY hard earned dollars in.
The original invoice would be required to verify the extent of the rebuild. There are lots of shade tree mechanics out there, myself included. They don't add value to an engine, nor are their professionalism or parts reliably sourced.
A good assessment of rebuilt. You forgot the fresh paint job?
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 11:31   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 43
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Well, I am not exactly disagreeing with anyone except the first poster who said the "shade tree mechanic" adds no value to an engine - that's going too far - if you take an engine that is completely unable to run, and put it back together so it seems to be working fine - I would say you added plenty of value. A boat with no engine at all is not usable even as a daysailer, is it, if it's big enough?

I was somewhat idly looking at boats in Mexico for bargains which would already be in cruising grounds. - though all the narcotrafficante violence is a bit scary now- anyhow, the engine was a thornycroft of some sort - English diesel but apparently out of business - maybe some international phone calls or more persistent surfing would have found a parts supplier, there was nothing very obvious, and quite possibly nothing at all- boat was around 40 years old.

So, rebuilt or not, take a close look at part availability - maybe that Thornycroft runs great, but any problem with it can not be fixed without paying a parts manufacturer to make one just to fit - probably not worth it.
__________________
boatbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2016, 11:49   #15
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,063
Re: Boats with Re-built motors...What to Think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbrain View Post
Well, I am not exactly disagreeing with anyone except the first poster who said the "shade tree mechanic" adds no value to an engine - that's going too far - if you take an engine that is completely unable to run, and put it back together so it seems to be working fine - I would say you added plenty of value. A boat with no engine at all is not usable even as a daysailer, is it, if it's big enough?

I was somewhat idly looking at boats in Mexico for bargains which would already be in cruising grounds. - though all the narcotrafficante violence is a bit scary now- anyhow, the engine was a thornycroft of some sort - English diesel but apparently out of business - maybe some international phone calls or more persistent surfing would have found a parts supplier, there was nothing very obvious, and quite possibly nothing at all- boat was around 40 years old.

So, rebuilt or not, take a close look at part availability - maybe that Thornycroft runs great, but any problem with it can not be fixed without paying a parts manufacturer to make one just to fit - probably not worth it.
I would agree but respectfully disagree. Nothing Wrong with a "shade tree mechanic" making something run well. That is a far cry from a rebuild.
__________________

__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
motor

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Quality built 58 foot spruce wood mast built and located at Gil's Catamarans GdB Classifieds Archive 1 03-06-2013 22:40
worst sail boats ever built lilly Monohull Sailboats 48 28-03-2008 08:23
Found this sight about many types of electric motors to power boats videorov Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 1 18-03-2008 06:15
How Boats are Built GordMay Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 26-08-2007 06:02
Taiwan-Built Boats ? eskfreedom Monohull Sailboats 8 19-03-2007 22:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.