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Old 07-10-2014, 09:46   #31
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

If you want a sailboat with a more shallow draft, consider a full keel or a cut away keel. A fin keel will be much deeper. Modern sailboat are practically all fin keel which is defined as having a keel less than half the water line length. However, some fin keel sailboats have a much shorter and deeper keel. These sail a little closer to the wind and are usually a bit faster than a full or cut away keel. If you hit something with one of the modern fin keel sailboats, the repairs can be very expensive whereas a full keel will usually get away with some scratches.
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:21   #32
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

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Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
The size of a sailboat is approximately the cube of the length because when you increase the length, you also increase the beam and height of cabin. A 40 foot sailboat is about 2.4 times larger than a 30 foot sailboat.
For real? That seems like a big difference. Is that the ratio of interior space, displacement, or what? I've tried a few examples of length x height x beam and don't come up with anything like 2.4...
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:38   #33
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

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Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
For real? That seems like a big difference. Is that the ratio of interior space, displacement, or what? I've tried a few examples of length x height x beam and don't come up with anything like 2.4...
Try this:

length x beam x height

30 x 11 x 6 = 1980

40 x 14 x 7 = 3920

3920/1980 = 1.97

OK, not 2.4, but it all depends on what beams you choose. This is simple math on a rectangle, and doesn't take into account the curve of hulls and cabins, of course. But there is great merit in the point that volume increases quite a bit based on length. Height doesn't change that much.

If you modify the height in the 30 foot boat to 5.5 feet, what do you get?

10 feet longer boat at least doubles the volume in that size range.
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:40   #34
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

The following sailboats have a headroom of 6' 4"
Coranado 36
Hughes 36
Allied Princess 36
Allied Mistress 39
Allied Seabreeze 39
Freedom 36
Valliant 40
Baba 30
Rawson 30
Island Packet 31
Island Packet 29
Mariner 31
Mariner 32
Pearson Vanguard 32
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:05   #35
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Try this:

length x beam x height

30 x 11 x 6 = 1980

40 x 14 x 7 = 3920

3920/1980 = 1.97

OK, not 2.4, but it all depends on what beams you choose. This is simple math on a rectangle, and doesn't take into account the curve of hulls and cabins, of course. But there is great merit in the point that volume increases quite a bit based on length. Height doesn't change that much.

10 feet longer boat at least doubles the volume in that size range.
Yeah I kept coming up with numbers like 1.7 - big difference between that and 2.4 when talking about interior living space.

I think it's the beam that makes the difference. I know most 30 footers have a beam of approximately 11' and don't know of any "production" 40's that measure 14' - I think most are closer to 13'. I've never been on a boat with 7' of headroom; a Bavaria 46 is only 6 1/2'

But clearly the size differential is larger than a simple linear relationship.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:10   #36
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

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If you want a sailboat with a more shallow draft, consider a full keel or a cut away keel.
Thanks - I will def consider this, so full length but just half the height more or less? I know this has been covered, but I do find the idea of centreboards quite appealing. I read a looong thread here somewhere where a few have these designs and no problems, esp when grounding - one can simply raise the board and move on.

Im a totla noob - but am i correct in asking that I seem to recall some centreboard designs have the ballast in the keel, and the centre board piece is a mid weight (150-250kg board) which i think is preferable since u arent winching a very heavy ballast up and down as well..

As i see a perfect compromise, is to have a bilge keel for water storage space (is that possible?), possibly a full shoal keel or perhaps a wider shoal fin keel with a centreboard, that way you can drop it for better windward sailing, raise it for shallow nooks and crannies, and possbily utilize the space for water -

The book i bought has incredible information about strengthening a boat and the do's and dont's - If i had to prepare for ocean crossing almost no doubt id gut the interior, and modify the boat, redesign to my taste - that would give me alot of confidence. Only reason I opted for 36-40 if if i have myself, girlfriend sailor and possibly one exp crew we would need quite alot of supplies - and a slightly larger boat would possibly handle the weight a bit better.

Is it correct to assume that the exact same boat design, say 33 vs a 40 with the same weight added - which would sail better in say a light wind? And/or what basic elements would help a yacht at least cover some ground ina light wind?

The book i bought - spurr mentions one of the most important safety features of a yacht is to be able to sail windward with abeach lee - not entirely sure what that means, but i can guess its when the wind wants to blow u into rocks/beach and your boat MUST be able to sail out if this condition - is that correct? So obviously if a 33 or 40 stands to have an advantage that would be nice to know - on a basic level of course as I know there are many more variables..
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:40   #37
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

n fact reading thru this book - i can definitaly say its a MUST, the wealth of practical information from experience and caveats is priceless, even down the how to layer fibre glass, what matting to use - Woven Reave fibre for example, is almost 2.5x in tensile strength as regular random matting.. and about 30x that of fir wood fyi.

This book is absolutely astounding in information, from windvane systems, strengthening boats, water systems, sorry to hijack my own thread but I think this will be valuable to perhaps even a most seasoned sailor

used form $4 its quite ridiculous - fyi im not posting tis for any merits other than the readers

This is the 2nd edition - I have the first, I hope its every bit as good -

http://www.amazon.com/Upgrading-Crui...ising+Sailboat
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:50   #38
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

I think 8 to 10k is not a huge budget. I have seen a Nassau 34 recently online priced 20k. But this means a beat up I think. Which implies maybe (?) extra 10k to get her there. Say maybe 40k is realistic for a sailaway 30/40 footer then.

But 8 to 10k is not an impossible budget. Just keep your head low and shop for a smaller and very well built boat (so that you can cross the Atlantic) or a slightly bigger one (and forget about the Atlantic, just live aboard happily ever after).

I think I could find a decent sub-30'er at this price. No extras, but sound and seaworthy. But a newcomer cannot, other than one lucky b, because he/she will not know what to look for.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 08-10-2014, 04:39   #39
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
...
I think I could find a decent sub-30'er at this price. No extras, but sound and seaworthy. But a newcomer cannot, other than one lucky b, because he/she will not know what to look for.

Cheers,
b.
Yes, but that is what the internet is for. Find a possible boat to purchase, get on line and look at the reviews, check out the weak points mentioned in the reviews and go over what survey books say, then get a good surveyor recommended by folks here and them move forward with defects found by and expert to get a good price. Usually this pays for the surveyor and means a much better chance of winding up with a sound boat.

The problem I see here is getting a blue water boat with decent headroom in less than 30 feet; however, many sailboats exist with such low headroom that it is obvious the designer did not intend the sailor to stand. However, the original poster (OP) is willing to fix up a sailboat which means a lower price. I see charity boats on ebay with really low prices and there are abandoned sailboats at many a marina here in the United States. I do not know what exists in England but I would not want to discourage the OP from trying as I think there are ways to move forward with his budget if he is careful.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:45   #40
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

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Originally Posted by westwinds View Post

(...)

I do not know what exists in England but I would not want to discourage the OP from trying as I think there are ways to move forward with his budget if he is careful.
Here the market is pretty good and the supply is fine. Older decent designs can be had at what I consider low fair prices. Off course, the lower the price, the more beaten up the boat, the more time, skill and effort (and off course money) required to get her into seagoing shape.

E.g. There was an 8k (EUR money) Rival 38 in France on Yachtworld last time I looked up. It may still be there. Southern France a nice place to live aboard. But, as said, well beaten up, and this would be only the beginning of a very long and quite more expensive adventure in BOATS (an acronym, not the thing).

A fully sea ready small cruiser could be had at 10k I think. But now I mean a small craft - less than 30'. Way too small to live in for most of us, way less than marginally safe in heavy weather, but strong, seaworthy and good resale value otherwise.

I think, this may work for the OP (hey OP!) to team up with an experienced sailor/cruiser who could help in selection and provide missing expertise.

So to say I too believe the task may be doable but I can see very many obstacles to any newcomer, except perhaps a natural.

Well, my 2 eurocents of trying to help out.

b.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:48   #41
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

Quote:
.CSY 33, also called CYGNET 33 6' 6"
Wrong, The CSY 33 was never called CYGNET.
There was talks of producing an economy version of the CSY
44, the CYGNET 44 but the factory folded shortly after, not sure that any Cygnets were built. After the BK the 44 molds were sold and a few boats were produced and called Antigua 44.

The CSY 33 is great liveaboard boat and sturdy enough to go offshore.
Prices from $25K to $55k depending on upgrades and maintenance, or
Lack of. Only 63 built.
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:09   #42
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

Hi everyone - my name is Francois funnily enough no direct French ties - 100% dutch.. Born in Cape Town and living part time in Seattle - I appreciate all the input - Westwinds is about on the right track about exactly what I want to do. Im not low budget because Im stubborn, its a budget thing - if I have even $7 extra to drop I would..

As an example I have found MANY deals in the motorbike / motorcar industry - I have a keen eye for deals with caution of course. I would be very careful within my budget constraints - and I think I would be able to do quite a bit of work. I do have a very hard working attitude once I am committed. Im def not going to buy an absolute wreck - thats for sure.. but I would almost enjoy getting dirty and applying some of the skills I have: rebuilding engines, welding, fibreglass work, cut, shape, install etc - not that Id want to spend 5 years doing that - but im sure for my budget its almost a given. And with things like chain plates and what Ive seen in my limited experience it would give me great confidence knowing I have been down under the hood and fixed something properly that might cause catastrophic failure at sea.. Ive seen 'rebuilt' engines with sheered rocker arms inside - nothing new..
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Old 08-10-2014, 17:43   #43
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Re: Boat Suggestions - Budget 36-40 Live Aboard

Consider used parts on ebay. Here is a list of other sources:

Tony's Marine Service - (810) 765-9300 7025 - Marine City Hwy Cottrellvi. near Chicago

Green Bay Propeller & Marine
14482 Velp Ave
Suamico, WI 54173
Store Hours:
9-5 Moday - Thursday
Friday 9-4
Phone 1-920-662-7605 : 1-800-236-0120

Comments from cruisersforum: Scurvy Dog in Pensacola, is filled to the brim with good "stuff" Places as the one in Ft. Pierce buy up manufactures parts when they go out of business, and often have new/old material. Don's and Sailorman are virtual treasure troves. A few of these are more industrial marine, but may have what you want.

boatrecycling.com
CAST-AWAYS Used Sail Loft and Marine Surplus
Certified Sales Inc - Liquidation Sales
Fairwinds Marina |
marconlq.biz
http://www.sailorman.com/newsailor/base/index.php
Ship Shape TV
Triple "C" Marine Salvage ? used marine equipment
Scurvy Dog Used Boat Parts 850-434-1770 (Pensacola FL)

Florida:

Marine Connection Liquidators
2970 North US Hwy #1
Fort Pierce, FL 34946
(772)465-6460
Marine Connection Liquidators

Marine Surplus
7070 15th Street East
Sarasota, FL 34243-3242
941-758-3552
Boat Parts And Marine Supplies At The Best Prices - Marine Surplus

Marine Surplus
2901 Palm Beach Blvd.
Ft Myers, FL 33916
239-332-0909
http://www.marinesurplusinc.com/serv...ate/about/Page

Don's Marine Salvage
5601 - 16th Ave. N.
Clearwater, FL 33760
727-576-8577
Welcome to Don's Marine Salvage Yard. Your new and used boat parts heaven!


Flounder Pounder Marine -255 Barnes Blvd. Rockledge, FL 32955ph: 321-639-2951 fax 321-639-2953
email: sales@fpmarine.com - web address: Sea Ray-Parts.com your source for original equipment boat parts for all brands of boats. Latches, locks, hardware lighting, stainless, gauges, panels, fiberglass parts, fabrics, propellers, running gear and more

Massachusetts:

Continental Marine Quincy Mass 617-481-0213
http://www.continentalyachtssales.com/


New Jersey:

trixieslanding.com Trixie’s Landing,
Bayville, NJ 732-269-5838

Pennsylvania:

MercGuy.com - Vintage Outboard motors, Parts,and Accessories

Virginia:

Budget Boats Inc,
2024 Battlefield Blvd. N Chesapeake,
VA 23324 Telephone:
757-543-7595 voice / 757-494-9796 fax
Affordable Used Boats - Trailers - Outboard Motors
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M&M Marine Salvage...your source for boats and quality used boat parts!
M & M Marine Salvage
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Meredith, NH 03253
603.279.5041
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