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Old 21-10-2012, 14:19   #106
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Human nature. Unfortunately, no, we can't all just get along.
Yes, one of the unfortunate side effects of digital communication. We all feel so free to say things on these boards, behind the mask of our computer monitor, with a manner and tone, that we would never use if we were actually sitting with that other people in the conversation in the cockpit of our or their boat.

Or does the us vs. them mentality extend to the anchorage too??
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Old 21-10-2012, 14:21   #107
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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Yes, one of the unfortunate side effects of digital communication. We all feel so free to say things on these boards, behind the mask of our computer monitor, with a manner and tone, that we would never use if we were actually sitting in the cockpit of your or the other guys boat.

Or does the us vs. them mentality extend to the anchorage too??

Oh, I agree, the internet definitely exacerbates the problem. It is a double-edged sword though, it cuts both ways. Sometimes it's a good thing that we'll say things here that we'd just gloss over for the sake of politeness IRL.
And while manners are unmistakable, tone can be very difficult to correctly discern on a forum. Especially with people like me who mostly refuse to use emoticons, for whatever reason.
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Old 21-10-2012, 14:23   #108
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

How big is big?
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Old 21-10-2012, 14:24   #109
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

at the end of the day my advice is to get a boat that you can comfortably afford,and bear in mind if the west goes tits up, you still have an income plan that is inflation proof,supervising shrinking assets from the south pacific can be a real pita!.
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Old 21-10-2012, 14:53   #110
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Yep.


None, they were all production boats or highend custom jobs.

.
If Bernard Motoissier was still alive he would have had a big laugh about that statement. His Joshua was surely neither a production boat nor a high end anything!!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 21-10-2012, 15:03   #111
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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I dont know the story here but to what was that ascribed? Was there a reason suggested why a two handed boat without an engine could claw off a lee shore where other boats foundered? I suspect your answer will be "size" but I find this a little too simplistic if it is?
T4B, if you are thinking that the Pardeys managed to get clear of the anchorage in their engineless boat that isn't the case. They were not even there at the time of the storm... flew in soon thereafter to write about it.

For those who don't remember this incident, all the boats in the anchorage were warned by the local fishermen that they should leave before the storm arrived. A few did, and they all survived. Another few managed to get away during the storm, but many did not and were driven ashore. Many of those reported that their props were fouled by the large amounts of debris in the water, and that they were unable to sail off. Many of those were not prepared to set sails (awnings, sailcovers, etc) on short notice.

And the very first boat on the beach was Joshua! Bernard was so upset by his stranding that he gave the boat away to some locals who refloated her and spent some time enjoying sailing the Sea of Cortez in her.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 21-10-2012, 15:05   #112
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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I dont know the story here but to what was that ascribed? Was there a reason suggested why a two handed boat without an engine could claw off a lee shore where other boats foundered? I suspect your answer will be "size" but I find this a little too simplistic if it is?
"Capable Cruiser" 3rd edition. Chap 30-32.

The Pardeys were not there for the event, they went after the fact at the request of 'Sail' magazine editors to investigate.

Generally the engines had littleeffect on the outcome, there was so much sand in the water and loose anchor lines from other boats that the engines overheated or got lines wrapped around the props. One or two managed to motor out.

At the worst of the blow some of the larger boats anchored on all chain started to break their belaying points, a few windlass's pulled out of decks. Those with line at the boat end of the rode had to deal with a lot of chafe and two people had a hard time keeping up on larger boats.

Regardless of the reasons, the correlation was made that larger boats were more likely to go ashore when there were only 2 or 3 people aboard.
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Old 21-10-2012, 15:10   #113
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
If Bernard Motoissier was still alive he would have had a big laugh about that statement. His Joshua was surely neither a production boat nor a high end anything!!

Cheers,

Jim
I believe Joshua had a motor which was the point I was making.

Point taken, though I would argue that it was high end in that it was well built and was one of the few boats that was refloated.
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Old 21-10-2012, 15:13   #114
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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Hi All!
Havent posted for a while. My wife and I have just passed our RYA Day skipper and Coastal skippers respectively.
Currently looking for a yacht to live aboard. In the Med for at least a year, maybe more and then possibly Atlantic crossing.
We are completely convinced that a Jeanneau will serve our needs well.
We have sailed, among others, a Jeanneau 45.2 and a Beneteau 473.
My Q is how big is too big for 2?
We have found that with a yacht set up for easy handling ( in mast reefing, electric winches, bow thruster for occasional ease etc ) the size does not seem to be much of a challenge. We are both 40ish and fit.
I see a 45ft Jeanneau Sun Oddysey as being suitable but could run to a 50ft if warranted...
The advantages of the larger boat being more space ( duh ) but also a far better bed in the forecabbin ( this matters as I am not short and we need to have some creature comforts ), better sea keeping, a fab lazarette in the bow etc etc....
Now I cant see why this should be disproportionately harder to handle than a 45ft???

Any thoughts?

So I'm curious on what you have decided is the right, or too big, size is after all this.
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Old 21-10-2012, 15:44   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate

T4B, if you are thinking that the Pardeys managed to get clear of the anchorage in their engineless boat that isn't the case. They were not even there at the time of the storm... flew in soon thereafter to write about it.

For those who don't remember this incident, all the boats in the anchorage were warned by the local fishermen that they should leave before the storm arrived. A few did, and they all survived. Another few managed to get away during the storm, but many did not and were driven ashore. Many of those reported that their props were fouled by the large amounts of debris in the water, and that they were unable to sail off. Many of those were not prepared to set sails (awnings, sailcovers, etc) on short notice.

And the very first boat on the beach was Joshua! Bernard was so upset by his stranding that he gave the boat away to some locals who refloated her and spent some time enjoying sailing the Sea of Cortez in her.

Cheers,

Jim
Part of superior seamanship is not being put in a position where superior seamanship is required.

If the locals come up and say get out of town and I do, drama over...

Who got out of there and who didn't sound like more of a crap shoot than a test of seamanship.

No one is saying a 50 foot boat is easier to 2-up than a 30 foot. They're just saying lots of folks can do it safely year after year.
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Old 21-10-2012, 15:54   #116
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

Well, from all above, it seems that the boat that is too big depends on the...crew, cruising style, design, equipment, experience, finance, risk tolerance, comfort tolerance, location, age, and whim of the owners.
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Old 21-10-2012, 15:55   #117
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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Part of superior seamanship is not being put in a position where superior seamanship is required.

If the locals come up and say get out of town and I do, drama over...

Who got out of there and who didn't sound like more of a crap shoot than a test of seamanship.

No one is saying a 50 foot boat is easier to 2-up than a 30 foot. They're just saying lots of folks can do it safely year after year.
I have not previously read anything about the locals warning them away. That said there was a lot of group-think going on about weather signs that should have been better heeded.

Truly bad weather is a very rare event. But so is sinking and that doesn't talk most people out of carrying a liferaft.
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Old 21-10-2012, 16:05   #118
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Thumbs up Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

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Well, from all above, it seems that the boat that is too big depends on the...crew, cruising style, design, equipment, experience, finance, risk tolerance, comfort tolerance, location, age, and whim of the owners.
Exactly!!
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Old 21-10-2012, 16:11   #119
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

Going back to the original question regarding handling, I'd like to add one or two elements in boat design which seem to make a significant difference in the ability of two people to handle the vessel with regards to docking and sailing.

The amount of freeboard and the amount of ballast and depth of keel. Our first significant boat, the 45ft Hunter was a relative lightweight at 26,000 pounds with very high freeboard and shoal draft keel; this gave the boat a more "tippy," feeling when under sail, along with us having to really plan ahead while docking in any significant wind. The Hunter tended to get blown around quite a bit which always made my wife nervous. Things happening onboard always seemed urgent.

The Oyster 53 on the other hand, sits very low in the water and weighs in at hefty 49,000 pounds, so for docking and sailing, it has quite a bit of inertia. It responds more slowly to changes in wind and throttle and doesn't get knocked around much at all; and with the deep keel, docking is much easier with less leeward motion. The pace onboard now, is more tranquil... no hurry.

So I'd say, don't be afraid to go big on a boat if that's what you wish to do, but look for one with traits and mechanical goodies that will make your sailing and docking easier.

To the OP: Have you considered doing a bareboat charter of the model you have in mind? Then you'll know if you're making the right choice.
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Old 21-10-2012, 16:29   #120
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Re: Boat Size - How big is too big?

Never used an electric winch or windless. Have considered one of those electric drills with a fitting that goes into a winch and possibly may get one.

On the other hand have seen plenty of threads about cars in tracks or rope bolts in mains that get stuck, have to be lubricated, and in extreme cases the sail has to be cut off the mast. Lots of comments in threads on this topic about carrying a can of MacLube and keeping it close at hand.

Still not sure what a stateroom on a boat is, but to me it sounds like if a boat has a stateroom it is too big.
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