Boat selection for cruising in Mediterranean initially and Ocean crossing eventual

[YKE]

hi all,
I have been reading this forum for educational purposes, but a first timer seeking for advice, and would greatly appreciate some advice on boat selections for cruising in Med initially and ocean crossing eventually.

Based in Australia and have been chartering last 12 years in various part of the world, also do some summer club racings and few ocean racing as a crew for other boat owners. Me and the other half feel that its time to dive into deep end ourselves and get a reasonable boat for cruising couple of years in Med and do few ocean crossings after that in next 10 years.. I know it sounds nice, but the bloody process of getting there is killing me at the moment..

Anyway, Will hopefully commence this in 2019 northern summer, maximum budget is aud300-400K ( usd250-300K ), including all setting up, etc.

Did quite a lot of reading and short-listed few European boats, namely HR 42, HR43, Contest 44CS, Najad40’s built around early 2000’s that are my price range that are in euro areas currently.

As you can see all these boats are Centre Cockpit and teak deck, which I am not use to, but I can’t seem to find any Aft Cockpit boat without teak in Med area with similar qualities for the price range. Hearing / reading terrible stories re teak deck issues in older boats, etc. Also I don’t want to go into AC / CC argument, but I am more familiar with AC boats for my charter and crewing . Don’t have much experience on CC’s.

Also I found this Ocean Wander 14 in turkey, but it seems vey heavy boat - https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1233359/?searchid=16259313&page=3

So, my questions are:

• what is wrong with this ocean wanderer boat, why its so heavy and how would that effect the sailing performance in med sailing and assume it would be suitable for ocean crossing ? can anyone expand the way its been built and possible dramas on resale value, maintenance, etc.
• any suggestions on HR, Najad, Contest quality boats for the same price range without the teak & with AC that can be found in euro areas ?
• any other suggestions in going thru this process of securing a good boat for the purpose explained that will have minimum maintenance and good resale value after 10 years.. yes, I know, I am asking too much..

thank you all in anticipation and with kind regards, YKE

[Pete7]

Does seem very heavy doesn't it. However, has the broker made a mistake and mixed lbs and kgs perhaps?

How about this as an alternative?

https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats...=1#description

Or if you can find the Moody 41 AC version.

Pete

[YKE]

tks Pete7,

unfortunately numbers are correct for the ocean wanderer.
its 18K displacement compare to similar boats of 12-14K.
just nor sure how this boat built so heavy and possible implications for sailing performance, maintenance & resale value going forward.

as for the moody's, am using mahina expedition list as a guide for shortlisting boats within my budget and requirements. am not sure how accurate this appoach is either..

mahina says i quote

Moody 38, 42, 47, 54, 64
*
GBR
Good designs of only modest quality. Compare to Catalina.


unquote

tks for your efforts, appreciate it.

rgds

[Pete7]

I have seen that list before and I have to be careful because I own a Moody. However, I feel the author certainly hasn't owned a Moody or been on board, so very much his personal opinion that owners definitely don't agree on.

You may find some of the European Bav, Jen or Bene yachts are aft cockpit.

Pete

[Hamish_ct]

I would take a look at the Hanse boats. Well thought out sail plans, and very comfortable. Its a production boat, but have seen many do the Atlantic crossing with out any issues.

[MartinR]

Teak deck is nothing to worry about if it is glued on. Worst case it will become unsightly. If it is screwed, problems may arise with water penetration into the deck core.

The boats on your list are all high quality, good motion comfort.

The Ocean Wanderer is heavy, but there is enough sail area to offset this partly. The heavy weight will cost a little performance, but will give you better motion comfort.

Resale values in 10 years - I would calculate about 0 for most boats. More and more used charter boats are flooding the market. All the main stream boats are even today incredible cheap as used.

For your budget, you could actually buy a used Amel. Mango or Super Maramu. They might actually hold their value. Among the best cruising boats ever built. Everything is high quality. Watertight bulkheads. Reasonably good sailing performance.

[mikecambrai]

I support the recommendation of an AMEL. I have cruised the Med in a 50ft Amel, and even though the waves were interestingly high, there was never a fear that the AMEL would not look after me. That to me is the criteria of a good yacht. One that I fell comfortable with and I know that whatever happens it will always look after me. Some boats that I have been on I would not even take out of the harbour on a windless day!

[boom23]

I second the Amel. I am biased as I am getting one...

My main criteria were:
Safe blue water monohull (inside and out).
Easy to single hand.
Protected center cockpit.
Easy to maintain mechanicals (amazing Amel engine room).
Low maintenance exterior (no exterior wood).
Reliable/proven furling mainsail.
Three total staterooms with aft master cabin.
Company that stands behind its boat. Amel supports all of their boats, regardless of age/ownership.

Many companies build good boats. What surprised me with Amel, the company, is their desire to improve their products. I've made several suggestions to them and they actually listened, investigated and finally incorporated few of them as a running change.

I've considered many of the popular upscale brands but none met more of my requirements than Amel.

[onavegador]

the ocean wanderer looks like a contest. The contest´s are mainly designed by Dick Zaal. Interesting which yard built her.

[YKE]

tks again for all responders, appreciate it.

ocean wanderer was apparently built by a turkish yard, and yes she was designed / built very similar to contest 44, but lot heavier.

feel Amel is bit big for us in med owing to horrible marina fee's, wintering cost, etc. but maybe i need to consider it and try to avoid those marina's and find cheap wintering areas.

tks & rgds, YKE

[Orson]

What? - no love for the Hylas? In your price range I would hope so, but the Med of course, is the most distant pond for this brand, and therefore rare.

Of teak? CF reflects the tastes and needs of NorAm cruisers, who's most admired waters lay South of the Gulf of Mexico and the Sea of Cortez. In other words, nowhere near the mid-lat playgrounds of the Med. Hence, tropical sun and heat are primary considerations to us. Not so to visitors.

I hugely admire the Amel. But is the Maramu Super at 53' too long? One survey found median lengths of sailing yachts in the Azores at 44' but 50' in Bermuda. On this basis, 53' hardly seems ginormous.

There is the issue of subjective judgment. Yet there are some universals found among Jimmy Cornell's 57 RTW cruisers that he surveyed:

What some owners found to be a more serious handicap on long voyages than actual size was the lack of storage space, a deficiency they blamed on the fact that many current boats are built for charter, for which storage capacity isn’t a priority.

Regardless of the size of boat, the most common feature that people wished they’d had was a comfortable, sheltered watchkeeping position.

To the last point, the Amel's hard dodger is frequently praised and envied.

Now, Jimmy Cornell in 2012, author of "World Voyage Planner," offered this sweeping opinion about these matters: "Over the years, I’ve conducted a number of surveys to try to find out if there’s such a thing as an ideal cruising boat—only to conclude that the ideal vessel is a chimera. While a particular boat may be perfect for one sailor or one particular voyage, the same boat might be totally unsuitable for another."

Beyond these important and nearly universal issues, including safety, come subjective values. In particular, the whole CC versus AC debate.

Consider that in the Caribbean, daylight is about 11 hours in winter, 13 in summer. And thus one is likely to spent maybe 12 hours a day topside. By contrast, in the summer Med, daylight is closer to 18 hours.

And therefore the pragmatic question becomes: "in which style cockpit and which topside am I - and my wife (or partner and friends) - going to most enjoy spending those 12 to 18 hours?"

Answer this one well, and the CC or AC question answers itself.

Perhaps a final consideration of 'best feature' selection comes down to a practical few, writes Cornell: "Asked to specify any design feature that would’ve made a considerable contribution to the enjoyment of their voyage, several owners mentioned shallower draft, which they said would’ve extended their cruising range. Other features mentioned were better access to the engine room for maintenance, a compact and safe galley, comfortable sea berths, but also provision for a double berth when in port."
https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailbo...globe-girdling

I think the OP now has a long, if not longer, checklist of both important and useful questions to interrogate his prospective options about.

[YKE]

tks Orson, noted.
fair points and it seems that we need to keep at this till we arrive to a acceptable compromise for our ideal boat.

i did not much feedback on the ' ocean wanderer ' and her heavy built.

tks for all responders. rgds, yke

[250224]

39BEN – BENTE

I.e. Bente 39, which (from the look of it) is fast, modern and smart. They had quite some success with a small 'Kleinkreuzer', the Bente 24 and the 'green Bente'.