Boat Search; i.e. Model Suggestions, PLEASE!

[GZgunner]

Hello all

As many here know I have been asking questions and following up on answers and most of all learning quite a bit.

I am now in the search process for a boat and would a few suggestions for a boat that will basicaly fit or come close to my listed criteria.

1. Sleep 3 comfortably with 2 seperate rooms
2. sail moderately well in bad weather ( regualr sailing speed isnt a concern because we are in no hurry) but being to move from severe weather is always a bonus
3. 38-46 FT prefered
4. basicaly cockpit controlled or can be refited to match
5. this one is of concern strictly to me- i want to be able to go anywhere i wish, we will be sailing along the coast for a few yrs then I would very much like to cross to see new place and people and especialy food
this point is very important to me
6. Initial boat purchase should be around 100k or less

I will be refitting and installing what I need but the basics need to come with the boat i.e. I want it to be a sound and respected model

Now I am at a loss i had been looking at a Morgan in San Diego its a 41 ft
Is this a good model in general?? I have no problem buying a boat thats a bit older and fixing it up. infact I think I might prefer this

But I am at a complete loss as to narrowing down the specific models then go out to places to look at them.

Can you experts please give me a short list of models ranging from say 1975 to 2003 that would be good for eventualy crossing oceans.

[mickmul]

For the weather requirements, I would go for a full keel or keel with skeg rudder design - have you looked at Lord Nelson or Hans Christian? Cockpit control can be achieved with reefing lines led back on a vertical block system, roller furling and electric windlass - I wouldn't let it be a deal breaker though - you will need to get on deck and "stuck in" even with a crew, and by the time the ocean adventure comes, you'll know your boat and your met info well enough to know the correct sail amount for night/storm/sea state and when to shorten sail. I'll watch the suggestions with interest . . best of luck!!

[Ex-Calif]

That is an admiral list of requirements but I think you will be hard pressed to find it in cruising condition for 100k.

If you have a 100k purchase budget + a refit budget then I am off base.

[SkiprJohn]

Too big, can't help. Tartan, Islander, Hans Christian, C&C, Hinckley, Abeking, Allied, Pearson are some of the many I'd recommend.
JohnL

[GZgunner]

Yes 100k is what i wanted to spend on the boat purchase alone....


refit is whatever it cost

[easterly]

The Morgan 41, is it an out island? If it is, it will be shoal draft and won't point all that well. Morgan did make a 37 I think that would be a much better choice for you.
You might be able to find a Valiant 40 in your price range as well.
I finally found my perfect boat and will be taking delivery Nov 6th, it turned out to be an Easterly 36 Aft cabin. You may spend the better part of a year looking at various makes and models before you find your perfect boat.

[Tspringer]

I would look for a Liberty 456, seems like a perfect boat for all the needs and desires you outlined. Purchase price under $100K might not be possible though.

Other possible good choices: Tayana 38 or Valiant 40 though a Valiant under $100K I would imagine would need a good bit of refit. I have seen plenty of the Tayana 38s in your price range.

Check out John Kretschmer's book that compiles all his Used Boat Notebook articles from Sailing Magazine on favorite boats and good blue water boats. Lots of good info there.



Terry

[Stevens 47]

Gulfstar 50 are great boats and a solid value for the money, a little bigger than your stated size range. They come up in Mexico in the 90K range sometimes on the west coast in the 120K range. Here is one in TX
Ron's Yacht Brokerage (Clear Lake Shores, TX)&

[GZgunner]

Yes it is an Out island. Whats the deal with these I seen them for sale all over online.

But people on these and other forums knock them a lot?? Seems like it was a popular boat but now noone likes it.


I admit I dont know a lot about boats yet but I would very much like the OI explained to me. A lot of them look like nice boats but maybe not seaworthy??

[easterly]

Originally Posted by GZgunner

Yes it is an Out island. Whats the deal with these I seen them for sale all over online.

But people on these and other forums knock them a lot?? Seems like it was a popular boat but now noone likes it.


I admit I dont know a lot about boats yet but I would very much like the OI explained to me. A lot of them look like nice boats but maybe not seaworthy??

O/Is are good boats. They had some blister problems in the late 70s early 80s. They are good live aboards. Good for the Bahamas. They sail like crap. You have to start the engine to tack. If you want a floating condo they are fine.

[GZgunner]

LOL ok that explains it . I want a sailing condo, floating would suck unless of course the choice is between floating and not floating.

I checked out the gulfstar looks pretty decent are the good sturdy ocean going vessel??

[henryk]

i took whole of last year and my search narrowed to Tayana .
I bought it .For the money , the have the best value , and you can take them anywhere .Very solid , excellent hand crafted teak interior and a beauty to sail in rough weather . I have a 42 footer ,build in 1982 . It had a bottom striped to mat, epoxied and anti fouled . 1999 Yanmar , all brand new sails , new rigging , new inverter , new battery bank .Avoid boats with teak decking . Good luck

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GZgunner

Yes it is an Out island. Whats the deal with these I seen them for sale all over online.
But people on these and other forums knock them a lot?? Seems like it was a popular boat but now noone likes it.
I admit I dont know a lot about boats yet but I would very much like the OI explained to me. A lot of them look like nice boats but maybe not seaworthy??

The Morgan O/I offers a lot of accommodation, for the money.

Boat Review by Jack Horner, NA - Morgan Out Island 41
BoatUS.com: Boat Reviews by Jack Hornor, N.A. - Morgan Out Island 41

“... time has proven this boat to be the most popular boat over 40' ever built. More than 1,000 still sail the seven seas. No comparable boat even comes close to this success. Conservative estimates suggest that 30 to 35 percent of the Out Island 41's built went into the charter trade and I think it's safe to say more sailors have had an opportunity to sail this venerable cruising classic than any other boat over 40' ...
... Structurally, the Out Island 41 is a very sound boat and even at its advanced age, it is very rare to find any significant structural problems with these boats. Older Out Island 41's had the hull to deck joint well down on the top sides of the vessel where it was vulnerable to dockside damage as well as damage from travel lift slings ...”

But then David Pascoe (surveyor) says:
Boat Review by David Pascoe - Morgan 462 Ketch
“Morgan is famous for producing some of the most badly blistered boats we've ever seen, as well as the junky, but immensely popular Out Island 41. In fact, the O/I 41 is one of only two hulls we've ever seen that had been destroyed by blisters, the other being a Chris Craft Commander ...”

And then Bob Perry says:
Perry Design Review: Morgan 41
boats.com - Boat Review/Test: Perry Design Review: Morgan 41

“If you were like me, you probably did a near retch the first time you saw an Out Island 41. In the early 1970s, this design from Charley Morgan's group was the answer to a lot of charter companies' dreams. But, it was ugly ...
... The Out Island 41 was produced specifically for the charter business and became an immediate success. It was slow and unresponsive, but it did get you there in comfort and privacy ...
... Nobody is going to tell you that the 41 is a rocket. Look at the rig. The chain plates are outboard and the jibs are sheeted to the toe rail. It's not important. The main thing is that all the elements of the design are in concert with the general concept.
The Morgan 41 remains the standard for shoal draft charter boats."

[Tspringer]

I have done a TON of research on the Gulfstar 50 and it heads my list of cruising boats that would meet my families needs.

The Gulfstar 50 is a very solid, comfortable, good sailing (though pointing more than about 40 degrees apparent is said to be largely a waste of time) boat... tons of bang for the buck. They are very robust boats and offer tons of space.

But... the boats you can buy for $100K or less will need LOTS of refitting. The one that is currently for sale in Annapolis I looked at several weeks back. It has been on the hard for well over a year and I crawled all over it and spent a couple of hours looking it over. Its not a horrible boat but it needs LOTS of pretty much everything.

I reviewed all that that boat really needed and added it up and spending an additional $100K to really have the boat totally refit and ready to go would be very easy.

Then again, when done the boat would be worth what you have in it and you would have what would be in effect a new boat, with all modern gear and ready to go anywhere.

Some things I like about the Gulfstar 50, particularly after looking at one in depth: the hull to deck joint is really well done. Through bolted, bonded and then well glassed over from underneath. Unless the hull to deck joint area is seriously damaged you can forget about water leaks there. The heavily bonded to the hull chain plate mounting points are massive and the chain plates themselves are well engineered (though I would add backing plates rather than just the large washers the boat I looked at had.) All the rest of the rigging and deck hardware seems over-engineered.

The interior layouts are nice, but lots of the materials are very cheap. I would figure to budget for an extensive cosmetic refit of the interior including replacing many of the thin veneer plywood facia boards with real teak planking and such. But thats just me.

Other seeming cheap stuff includes the hatches and ports. If the boat is in largely original condition (and all the cheap ones are) then figure all this kind of stuff needs replacing.

It sounds to me like the 2 cabin version could work for you. It gives a really huge nav station and expands the engine room giving great access.

YMMV


Terry

[Tom Spohn]

Here is a site to help sort out the performance of various models:

Sail Calculator Pro v3.5-beta