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Old 04-12-2005, 13:44   #1
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Boat search - honing in...

I've been looking and researching for about 4 months now and have pretty much narrowed the search down to these 70's and early 80's era boats.

C&C 36
Islander 36
Catalina 36
Oday 37

My primary use will be coastal cruising on Long Island Sound and up the coast to the Cape and islands. Also, I may need to move aboard in the next few years. I also want a boat that is capable of sailing down to the Carribean.

I have mostly looked at 33-34' boats and decided they were just a bit too small. I'm trying to find something for 30-40k.

Any thoughts or advice you might have will be taken into consideration and will be appreciated.
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Old 04-12-2005, 13:59   #2
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Challenge 40 ketch. I recommend the ketch over the sloop, as the hull is much stronger. Try this link http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/Challenger/1
The Challenger Yachts built mid 70's are the ones I am refering. Allot of these are priced way more than is realistic. these boats usually sell for 25000-35000. (just in case you were to make an offer.) We love our Challenger.
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Old 04-12-2005, 17:01   #3
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Challenger

I looked at some of the Challengers earlier. They look okay in the pictures, but does the 32 really rate 220 PHRF. My T 8.5 is 191 and most of the 36 footers are around 150. These are cruising type boats not the go fast models.
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Old 04-12-2005, 18:47   #4
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The 32, I believe, is 220 or so. The 40 is 195. The PHRF is a mathematical rating based on design criteria, and is only a guideline as to how fast a boat is. One of the reasons for the higher numbers on the Challenger is the smaller sails. THe Challengers have been critisized for being under canvased, but for a cruising rig, I find it ideal. I have had no problem keeping pace with my friend's Endeavor 43, that has a PHRF of 165. Bottom line is comfort. Under sail, the Challenger is very stable, and easy to sail. She points well, and the smaller sail area is easy to handle. At anchor, the Challenger is the largest 40 footer I have ever been aboard. Lots of deck space, and the interior has been described as cavernous. At one of our yacht club events, we had 20 people aboard the boat. 6 below eating dinner, 2 serving, and 12 on deck, 10 of them were sitting in the cockpit having drinks. Even then, the boat did not seem crowded, and she was just starting to get close to her waterline. Even though she has a full keel, she has a huge rudder, and will turn on a dime. Great for tight harbors. She has 2 full cabins. The master cabin being aft, and with the longitudinal berth, you get to use the same bed at anchor or underway. OK, now I am sounding like a brochure, but you get the idea. What looks good on paper (or bad) is not always the same in real life.
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Old 04-12-2005, 20:16   #5
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Challenger 32

I noticed the 32 does not have a very tall rig, and that would be the reson for its high PHRF number. The are probably not raced much because of the lack of sail area, unless they are in a windy area. Somewhere like Wellington NZ. When the planes let the brakes off after after hitting full throttle, they go up not forward.
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Old 04-12-2005, 21:17   #6
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Correct on all points Michael. But IMHO this makes for a very comfortable cruiser. If the wind gets too light, put up a spinaker. Actually, our 40 footer does quite well in 5-7kts.
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Old 05-12-2005, 00:42   #7
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Well.. for $40k or maybe a tad more..

The mid-late model ('89-'92) J/35 has..


Fine roomy interior. Not being jammed full of interior makes for a roomier boat. Quite comfortable IMHO.



Stongly built. The racers beat the we-be-jesus outta' some of these boats and they never whimpered.

With the addition of a little gear, (Your list here) My list was fridge, watermaker, inverter, tillerpilot and some solar panels to feed it. You have a fantastic weekendender for the familly or a passable bluewater cruiser for a couple. (A bit of a rough ride on the bluewater bit)

And... A PHRF of 72. Yes, it sails just like the brochure said it would.

Now, if..
A) your sailing with the kiddies, or
B) On a date or
C) Its snotty out or
D) Your sailing with friends with full keeled boats..

Just sail with the main alone. Its like sailing a big Laser. Then, if you get in a hurry.. Put up the jib.

Just another spud for your stew..

-jim lee
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Old 05-12-2005, 05:30   #8
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I think this is a pretty strange list of boats. The original list includes a quality built boats that was built as a racer-cruiser, two reasonably well built coastal cruisers and one less than mediocre 'value oriented boat'. This is such broad list that it makes it a little difficult to understand the narrower goals of the original poster.

The poster described his primary sailing gounds as Long Island Sound. The Sound really rewards boats with light air performance with a lot more good sailing days, and rewards boats with a little bit more speed, with a bit more range, with a greatly wider range of diverse and less crowded anchorages.

His secondary sailing venue requires going offshore making it critical that the boat be well constructed and be capable of sailing well in a wide range of conditions.

In my mind, a boat like the Challenger, (overweight, out of date, and under-canvassed) would be the absolute opposite of what I would suggest.

I am not sure that the $50,000 J-35 is exactly the right answer either (no coamings and really big headsails) and most have a very stripped out interior. J-35's are also prone to having core problems and the older J-35's had a major lack of ventilation. (If you were thinking of going the J-35 route,(with its smaller headsails) I would think that a J-36 that has had a vee- berth fitted would be a better choice)

I think that the answer lies somewhere between the two choices. I would think that 36 footer for a Long Island Sound should have a LIS PHRF rating somewhere down around 110-125 or better. Of the list, the C&C would be closest to ideal, but like every one of these boats on the list, these boats were very dependent on very large headsails making them a bit of a pain in the neck in changeable conditions.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 05-12-2005, 08:16   #9
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What these boats have in common is:

Size
Price Range
Primarily caostal cruisers
Decent sailing performance
Decent construction (ok the C7C may be better, definately stronger built than the Oday or Catalina but all hold up and are not shoddily built.)

I like boats with big headsails.


Not at all interested in the Challenger, thank you.

I have considered the J35, there are some on the market in my region in my price range, but I'm looking for a larger, more comfortable cabin.

The Oday is the one boat that, to my mind, doesn't seem to fit
because of the center cockpit. I have not yet looked at one, but I like the idea of the aft cabin and Practical Sailor seems to like the boat as well.

Yes there are plenty of light-air days here on LIS but also plenty of gales and thunder storms and noreasters too.
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Old 05-12-2005, 12:14   #10
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Well, J/35 interiors are very dependant on the year of the boat. This is why I spec.ed 89-92 You want the opening ports up to the 92 version. The last year, 93 the interior was all changed and (IMHO) Sucked horribly. Pre opening ports tend to be stripped and as is, only good for bouy racing.

My buddy has and Islander 36 and again, in my opion, the J's interior is roomier and more comfortable. (Mine is a '92)

What the big deal with coamings? Never saw a need for them. Without, you get a much bigger cockpit, heck you have the entire poop deck to louge about on.

Late year 35's (According to J-boat scuttlebutt) have vacuume bagged hulls. So the coring problems are supposed to be solved. This is also why I spec.ed the later years. I don't know when they started vacuum bagging them.

Oh! Also forgot to add as a feature, I'm about 6'4" and the J/35 is one of the only boats I could find that had a long enough V-Berth for me to sleep in. Its something like a 7'x6' area. A vertible playpen. Why bust it up into a standard V-Berths? Donno' but some do.

One detractor is, for me, the headroom comes up to about my nose. I had to learn the art of walking like an ape in the salon. (Living room)

In the end, like all of us; You will most likely see all these boats, waste your time in silly logical exorsizes then.... Buy whatever one you fall in love with, tossing logic by the board.

At least that's what I did.

Have fun!

-jim lee
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Old 05-12-2005, 18:42   #11
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First, alstki, I am not trying to sell you a boat. Just adding to the list. Not your cup o tea, no problem. I like the Catalinas as well. I do not like the ODays, but that is just my opinion. I have only sailed on one, but saw a number of things that I personally did not like. Again, just my opinion, and not based on tried and true numbers and statistics. I too shopped for a boat using the PHRF as a measure of the boat's suitibility, and I came to the decision that the Santa Cruz 52 with a PHRF of, I think, -72, was the only boat that would do. Of course, when I let the sticker shock set in, I got a bit more interested in some of the other considerations such as interior accomodations, deck layout, and ease of handling. I happen to think the Catalinas fill all of these requirements, but the 36's I have seen are closer to the $50000-$60000 range.
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:55   #12
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Jeff, help me out here please, since I am in a search for similar boats, and really don't know much about any of these except the C&C. I was wondering which one you considered the "less than mediocre 'value oriented boat'", since I have heard people trash all the other 3 at one time or another.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us "newbies" - you have no idea how much we value the information found on this forum.

John
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Old 07-12-2005, 14:08   #13
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Yeah Mr. Jeff, help out this 'newby'.

Based on your last year's advise I purchased a Beneteau First 35s5 and I have no regrets at all. I am sure you will be able to help his in the same way.

As a matter of fact: I am now looking at a Wauquiez Pretorian for my long term (passage-making) goals.

Jan
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