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Old 30-01-2013, 12:06   #16
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

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Originally Posted by Cruzor View Post
Some very interesting points made.

As I said, even though fixing things and troubleshooting engine/electrical problems is not something I truly enjoy doing(as opposed to a lot of peoples I know), I do realize maintenance will be part of boat ownership.

If things require replacing/repairing one by one and don't break all at the same time, I feel like I will be able to deal with it all and perhaps even enjoy learning.

If the boat is in perpetual state of repairing, not able to sail for long periods of time, requiring constant and large amounts of money to be spent on, that will cause stress and I will probably lose the enjoyment of it.

I have a stressful job and my free time needs to be spent doing relaxing things like sailing; not adding more stress

Maybe the key is to spend a bit more on initial purchase and buy a newish 5 to 10 years old boat?

From your experience, are production boats such as Jeanneaus and Beneteaus more prone to issues than others?
It sounds to me like you may want to consider something like Sailtime, which is a fractional sailing club rather than purchasing your own boat. I'm not a member but have heard good things: www.sailtime.com
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:14   #17
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

Repair a sail? That's where I definately aint no sailor. How do you do that? Sew and needle? I'm pretty much technicaly inclined and experienced enough to perform maintenance on my car. Have some experience on boats, particularily LCM-8's. Heck, I'm an aircraft technician with A&P license for last 20 years. There is not much I can't trouble shoot, but I'd be a liar to say I know it all.
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:17   #18
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

There is another school of thought that if you buy a boat that is 8-10 years old, most of the electronics will be pretty near the end of their life cycle and need to be replaced/repaired. In other words all the things that tend to break on a boat do so in around this time period. Now, if you get a 20 year old boat these problems have been delt with and updated. Of course, you need to get the right twenty year old boat.

Any thoughts on the validity of this???? I'm not in any hurry to start fixing things either.

Thanks,
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:17   #19
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

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Originally Posted by Cruzor View Post

Maybe the key is to spend a bit more on initial purchase and buy a newish 5 to 10 years old boat?

From your experience, are production boats such as Jeanneaus and Beneteaus more prone to issues than others?
Yes, I think the key is to spend a bit more on initial purchase (to get a genuinely well maintained boat), not neccessarily a newish boat, but probably more likely to be that (in practice the more PO's a boat has had the more likely one (or more!) was a moron, broke or used hammer as the no.1 go to maintanence tool.......and possibly all 3 ).

No hands on experiance of Jeanneaus and Beneteaus, but a squillion buyers (including commercial charter companies) over a couple of decades can't all be wrong. Everything has pros and cons, but none perfect. IMO if you are looking for as much of a "wipe down and walk away" type boat as possible to get (rather than also one with the joy of endless hours of fiddling and fixing ) then I would be looking at them very closely.

A broad rule is that first boat refit is due around 7 years (they don't usually happen!, at least not everything - usually cheaper to sell if not then keeping the boat for another 5 years!). and of course 7 years is a broad rule, not everything falls due on the boat's actual 7th Birthday (oh if life with boats was so predictable!).....just that a 10 year old boat (with a good refit completed and a decent owner or 2) may be better value than a 6 year old version with the refit (kerching $$$ ) coming over the horizon and towards the end of the owners learning curve on (non) maintainence......but then again it might not be . Boats .

In addition to the Sailing Club idea, what about considering shared ownership? Not a new concept by any means, whether with one other person or a small group (3 or 4?). Obviously compromises to be made, especially on usage and potential for disputes - but good agreements make good partners (you will not be re-inventing the wheel)....the big upside is of course shared costs , that new mainsail don't look so expensive when the cost goes 3 ways . Buy into an existing group or set up own - google up YachtFractions to get a ballpark idea (they just enable the set up and connect folks - and then drop out of the picture....am sure others do the same, and can be DIY'd).
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:19   #20
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

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Repair a sail? That's where I definately aint no sailor. How do you do that? Sew and needle? I'm pretty much technicaly inclined and experienced enough to perform maintenance on my car. Have some experience on boats, particularily LCM-8's. Heck, I'm an aircraft technician with A&P license for last 20 years. There is not much I can't trouble shoot, but I'd be a liar to say I know it all.
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Old 30-01-2013, 12:52   #21
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

If your wallet is of adequate thickness (as measured by your boat's yardstick), you may actually never touch any maintenance job and enjoy 'pure' ownership.

People who do the maintenance do it either because they like doing it or else because DIY is the only way they can afford a boat.

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Old 30-01-2013, 14:02   #22
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

A lot of "maintenance" can be deferred or ignored if you are an occasional user versus liveaboard . A newer boat is less work, but higher depreciation.
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Old 30-01-2013, 14:15   #23
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

3 times for mainatanence to be done:-

1) Before ownership (by a PO)
2) During ownership (by you)
3) After ownership (yer sell the maintanence! - if not keeping the boat often the better option financially)

In practice all boats a mixture of all 3 approaches, it's just the percentages that differ. IMO what you want is lots and lots of 1), and a mix of 2 and 3 (well, if the next owner did not have a sense of humour he would not be buying a boat!).
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Old 30-01-2013, 14:48   #24
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

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People that are tight on money and cannot otherwise swing it without doing it all themselves cannot possibly ever understand how much others that don't like to fiddle and mock around all day repairing things can live with themselves. I understand it, but they seem to have a hard time doing so.

The video above is a prime example of what I am not: older guy with all the time in the world to fix even the dust blowing around, playing music that makes you wanna hang yourself, etc. Very instructional video nevertheless and does have its value.

I do give validity to the person above that said you should learn how to troubleshoot and fix some common things. Not for the enjoyment of it all, but for the mere fact that you will be in open water and these things will break at some point. A lot easier and convenient to fix it them and move on than to sit idle for hrs waiting to be towed so someone else can repair it.

Short of it is that you should learn how to do some of the things that WILL inevitably break down and ruin your sailing day. The rest, pay someone else to do it for you. Alternatively, you will get some days when you'll have the time and nothing else to do, so you could come in and do some of it yourself to get more familiar with your own systems. If you care for it!

Yes, newer boats break down less but cost more. Older boats need constant repair and re-doing of everything. It is what it is
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Old 30-01-2013, 15:06   #25
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

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Originally Posted by Cruzor View Post
Hi everyone,


While I am now convinced about my interest in sailing, I would say that repairing stuff and doing odd jobs is not something I enjoy a lot or have a gift for. Don't get me wrong, I realize and accept that boat ownership entails regular maintenance and fixing stuff here and there, which I am ready to learn and do. However I wouldn't enjoy spending large amounts of my time doing this. Then you won't enjoy a lot of the time. It has to happen.

So my questions are:

Is it possible in your opinion to enjoy boat ownership without being a DIY person? Only if you have enough money.
Is maintenance a large part of your life as a boat owner? You can bet it is. New or old.

Thanks in advance for your views.

............
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Old 30-01-2013, 15:11   #26
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

For that sail repair, I could easily see farming out that job to an old lady or man with nothing better to do. How boring.
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Old 30-01-2013, 15:16   #27
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

Back to basics...Lease or Buy a boat! Determine how many days per month/year you intend on sailing. Calculate the actual cost of a charter of a 40 ft monohul for a week; sailboat charter companies give you a ball-park figure on how much it costs to charter per week in a given month. Add 50% to the published charter cost; flights, taxes and incidentals must be included, or you may use $295 USD/day of charter on average. Crunch the numbers wisely! The answer should be: It is cheaper to lease a boat than own it (unless you intend to sail the seven seas or live on it). Mauritz
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Old 31-01-2013, 07:47   #28
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

You are probably right. I view a sail boat as a lifestyle kind of life thing. You buy the boat to sail around and use the boat. Basically LIVE ON IT. If it sits in the Marina all the time, you are sinking money into it with the marina fees, and never using it. Like buying a Harley. You buy a Harley to live that kind of life style. I would like to do a sail trip like around the Bahamas or Bermuda but never far from any land. The honest to truth on why is because, if find that it is very boring out at sea unless you have a computer, or play computer games or something to really keep you busy. I can imagine the slowness crossing the Indian Ocean, takes how long to cross doing six knots on a sail boat if the wind is blowing? Hotter than hell and very very boring after a while. I don't know how many people have actually experienced being under way some 45 days straight or more without seeining land, but it gets boring after a few days out. Especially when there is nothing but ocean all around, and nothing else. For every moment of land experience, there is far more boring ocean crossing days. This is when I say to myself......"I should have bought an airline ticket to FIJI and spent 30 days there than spending 6 months trying to get to it.
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Old 31-01-2013, 08:04   #29
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

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Originally Posted by Cruzor View Post
Is maintenance a large part of your life as a boat owner?
Remember the Three "F's" If it:

Flies
Floats
or Fornicates

It is cheaper to rent.

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Old 31-01-2013, 09:53   #30
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Re: Boat ownership and maintenance

Cheaper depends on how you define it. I sat down and did numbers. If I bought a boat and used it for one 3 day weekend/month, the rental/charter cost would be slightly more than the loan payment, insurance, slip, and fuel. Use it any one more day/month and I'm ahead in terms of cost until something breaks down and needs fixing/replacing. I live in south FL where I am very likely to use far more than stated above. Yes, money is still spent either way and you have to be OK with it. Yes, buying I am committed to the expense and eventuality of extra expenses too. However, I have the advantage of using it whenever I feel like it too, which realistically will be more than the break even point.

There is a wealth of practical information in this and many other sites. However, I have to keep reminding myself all the time who the majority of people posting and contributing are, where they are coming from, the types of boats and ages that are most common among said people, lifestyles, and at what point in their lives they are (retirement vs working family vs the younger). In the end, you have to make it fit to you and your particular case.
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