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Old 21-02-2010, 15:43   #16
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Thanks for all the informative replies.

Understand the change single handed lifestyle (actually i don't) but if you don't do it you will never find out. Sailing and water has been my #1 interest since young age. I built my first racing dinghy when I was 14y, and I just want to do this. Unfortunately I don't have a person to do it with. I've been thinking of other approaches such as buying a bigger boat and take on people, but its too complicated, at least at this stage.

The title might also be a bit misleading. I'm not looking to cross oceans all the time but rather to explore the world using the boat as the vehicle and home. If I don't like I just sell the boat and move on.

Back to boat choices.

I didn't think the J-Boats as ocean capable but based on the input I browsed and a J/40 did a 6 year world circumnavigation. The J-boats are to me "real sailors boats" (my values and we are all different), and a joy to "just sail". They have excellent web pages and owner groups and I'm starting to understand the pros/cons of the boat, biggest issue being headroom. In terms of sailing it, I don't think you find a better single handed ocean performance boat.

Totally agree about the FIRSTs. If a boat is designed for serious ocean racing its likely to also be strong enough for non-racing ocean crossing. The First 42 would probably be a great boat but the replacement the 42S7 (the newer the better) is within my budget and certainly one of the boats on my short list. Iím less sure about the 40.7 as its quite cramped inside. itís a small 40 footer.

Apart from potential lifestyle issues, I think the biggest issue when single handing is managing survival weather and when **** happens. Most boats can be single handed in 30 knots but when it gets to 50 (which I never experienced) itís a different deal. In storms what concerns me most is size or what is the optimal size. Bigger has its advantages but when things goes wrong then the problem is also bigger.

In high performance dinghies there is a concept called "circle of goodness".... Make it lighter - reduce sail area - reduce loading .. and go around again.

If you would apply this to keelboats, instead of looking at a boats length, look at its displacement, because thats the level of forces the elements will bring on your boat and the level of trouble you will get in when things goes wrong. If you compare a J/40 at 17.000 Ibs with the equivalent displacement long keeler, which would be the best boat in rough weather.

Thanks and cheers
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Old 21-02-2010, 17:23   #17
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If you compare a J/40 at 17.000 Ibs with the equivalent displacement long keeler, which would be the best boat in rough weather.
Depending on what you want to do in the rough weather.

If you want to run, then the J might be the last man standing. If you want to beat, the long keel may be more comfortable.

Light does not equal weak, unless maldesigned. Do not forget the light boat will dissipate more wave / impact energy when pushed while the heavy boat will have to take it all = it must be build stronger. But there are alternative (to weight) ways to get strength in design.

Think a ping-pong ball - it never gets crushed by the storm ... think a reed in the wind ...

b.
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Old 22-02-2010, 06:44   #18
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Well, if you are 6-6, headroom is going to be a problem, period. Most 50 footers don't have 6-6 in headroom, and the ones I've seen that do were not performance oriented.
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Old 22-02-2010, 08:21   #19
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Well, if you are 6-6, headroom is going to be a problem, period. Most 50 footers don't have 6-6 in headroom, and the ones I've seen that do were not performance oriented.
I'm painfully aware of that. Sometimes its good to be tall, sometimes short.

As you stated, I don't think I will be able to get a ~40 footer performance boat with 6'6" headroom, but the higher the better. Its also difficult to get reliable headroom data. The Bene First 42S7 is quite good at ~6'5", so I'm trying to get at least 6'4" in the main standing area of the salon.

I just got an email back from J-boats. They didn't know for sure but at least 6"1' but probably around 6'3". The J/37 has a documented headroom of 6'2".

Cheers
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Old 22-02-2010, 08:32   #20
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Well, if you are 6-6, headroom is going to be a problem, period. Most 50 footers don't have 6-6 in headroom, and the ones I've seen that do were not performance oriented.
That is a misconception. as much of the boat is below the water.. I often have people walking by ask if we have to get down on our knees to move around inside our boat.. ours has 6'4" head room..and I would think ours would classify as a performance boat.. But I guess 6'6" might be problem if you were that tall.. And thats like saying, If you are over 400 lbs and 3 foot wide, you cant get down into the cabin..
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Old 22-02-2010, 08:36   #21
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Do not rely on manufacturer's height claims. At 5'7" this is not an issue for me, but my taller friends all report that manufacturer's head room claims are usually true (if at all) only at select spots in the cabin. The only way to tell how well you fit inside a boat is to walk/stoop/bang your way around inside of it.
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Old 22-02-2010, 09:02   #22
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My friends sail a Koopmans 40 (steel). Fast, safe, easy to handle. Would be my pick if 150k available.
i also think steel hull would be a good place to start if you are wanting to go around the world in it. this 42' topper hermanson might fit the bill:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991.../United-States

if you are going with fiberglass then go with the caliber.
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Old 22-02-2010, 15:22   #23
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I'm painfully aware of that. Sometimes its good to be tall, sometimes short.

As you stated, I don't think I will be able to get a ~40 footer performance boat with 6'6" headroom, but the higher the better. Its also difficult to get reliable headroom data. The Bene First 42S7 is quite good at ~6'5", so I'm trying to get at least 6'4" in the main standing area of the salon.

I just got an email back from J-boats. They didn't know for sure but at least 6"1' but probably around 6'3". The J/37 has a documented headroom of 6'2".

Cheers
6Foot 5 inches...?
Be satisfied with that... truth be told no one walks around inside boats fully erect, chest out, in harbour... much less at sea.
Just remember to duck a tad at the appropriate times.
Flexed knees to allow for boat motion lose's an inch or two of your height, and at sea the quickest way to break a leg is a macho stiff legged gait...lol.
Headroom = slow boat... fast boat = less headroom
Much ado about nothing.
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Old 23-02-2010, 07:35   #24
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Lots of good advise here:get a ok performing boat that you can live with ,cross your oceans,compromise on the headroom and get a sailboard or kite to impress the pretties when you make harbor. probably could find a frisky sailing dingy that might also serve as a tender.You are going for 5years? After 5 hours in the ocean alone you will be soooo happy that you didnt buy the light performance as a live aboard ocean cruiser.
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Old 23-02-2010, 07:40   #25
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PS; 6ft 2in and have 4ft 6in headroom....
Furthermore screaming along at 15plus kts may seem great close to shore, but solo on the 'HIGH' seas it soon lose's its charm if you dont have the motive of a financial/career goal...
Remember, if it breaks, and they often do if over pressed there's no sponser to pick up the bill and no Sea Tow to come bail you out..
You'll just be another guy with boots to big for their feet.
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Old 23-02-2010, 09:32   #26
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Sail,
because you are part of the racing community, check out some of the big boat series races, try to work your way into an ocean crew and a do a couple offshore events...
You'll find the answers your looking for.. The 40 foot range, weighing in between 17 and 24 k will give you the comfort and ease of handeling for ocean use.. On ours, the rigging is tied throu internal struts going to the bottom of the hull.. You'll find this on most offshore performance yachts so its not an issue..
And these yachts were designed to push and push hard throu nasty conditions in the ultimate of stress without falling apart or breaking.. Something you wont come close to in normal cruising.. and in many cases, the parts on a performance Yacht such as the winches and blocks are only avalable on the boats themselves and dont show up on the normal market for a couple years..and then at a high price..
You wont find a set of self tailing Lewmar two speed 56s on cruising boat, but its common place on a performance yacht in the size your looking at....... happy hunting
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Old 23-02-2010, 11:55   #27
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Below is a link to an article of a couple who did a six year world circumnavigation with a J/40. They compared the comfort no too disimilar to a heavy 42 foot double ender.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/pdfs/slipperyJ40.pdf

I've been investigating other alternatives and one interesting might be the Tartan 3800. A little pricier with two for sale at $139K (1995) pushing a sail away price likely into the $175k+ range. Not as fast as a J/40 or 42S7 but something in between these two and a Caliber 38. Headroom of the 3800 is 6'5".

Another interesting boat is the CS40. Looks to be similar to the Tartan 3800. Little older 1988 and cheeper.

Would these two boats be decent world cruisers in the same spirit as a Beneteau First or J/40.

Cheers
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