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Old 08-04-2003, 19:06   #1
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Boat choices.

Wanting to pick everyones brains. Boat shopping from Hannibal, MO is hard. We are trying to get 1) Models/makes we both like 2) Get a feeling of the market 3) How much we want to spend 4) Find reviews. Doing these things before we actually go to the docks hopefully will help. Lots of frustration. We find one we agree on, find a good $$, read a bad review and back to square one. I guess I'm asking what you would buy.
Plan to stay in tropical locations.
1)Seaworthiness 2)Comfort 3)Speed
Used, Fiberglass, Diesel, 27-35'LOA
Important Things;
- Hull integrety
- Engine reliability
- Strong rigging
- Quality sails

I guess I don't want junk just something simple, comfortable, reliable, safe, and roomy.

Price should fall $15,000 to $35,000.

I sure would take any comments. Thanks. Dave
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Old 08-04-2003, 19:48   #2
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I would suggest you keep doing what you are doing. I went through the exact same process you are going through. I just closed on a boat last month.

A bad review does not always mean a bad boat. One other source for reviews are the various owner mail lists and web groups. Sailnet has a lot of owners groups but spome boats owners lists are elsewhere. They will give a totally different review plus give you all the specific dificult issues all boats that are not brand new have. These people like the boats and will help you see the good things about them as well as one biased review. Find out why other people love the boats to balance the bad reviews. Note no old boat in your price range is in pefect shape any way. I would put reviews lower in your criteria. Get a boat that is in the best shape you can find in your price range. One thing I used to to when I found an odd boat for sale is figure out why anyone would have ever wanted the thing. Try see what is good about any boat to help you tune your skills.

Te boat you CAN buy is the one for sale not the one that comes out on paper to be the "perfect boat". Don't overlook a great boat because it never made your short list. Keep expanding your research and get ready for the day when a totally different boat pops up on your radar. You'll be able to know how to find information and use the past work you did to help answer the questions you will have. You can learn to spot and evaluate boats that are gems.

The boat I bought never appeared on my radar screen until about a year after I went looking and 3 weeks before I bought it. The fact that I had researched a LOT of other boats let me see right away that the boat I was looking at on paper was the one to go out and see in person. My wife saw it too becuase she was involved with all this research too. Educate yourself so you can see. It helps you understand what you can afford, what you like and what is really out there. You need to make all those issues come together.

I like yachyworld for just looking at boats. You get a lot of information and pictures to help you visualize. They have a nice search engine and a lot of boats. It also lets you look at what is in the real world for sale at what price. Asking prices are not what you actually pay it's where you start. In the end look everywhere you can but get used to places you like to look just so you see a lot of different boats. Follow them up with information about the companies and specs and owners.

Last advice. Don't ask other people what they would buy with your money. Do ask any one you can real boat questions and see actual boats. Talk to folks that actually own a boat you might like if you can. It helps you on that day when you and your wife see the one boat you'll try to buy. Don't set your expectations too soon. Any boat you buy will require a marine survey and they can be good or bad news. Just don't fall in love til after the purchase and it will help.

There is a boat for you out there. You just have not met it yet. It does not have to be perfect to be a lot of fun either.
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Old 09-04-2003, 07:14   #3
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Thanks

Thank you for the encouragement Paul. I use Yachtworld and Sailnet all the time. My name on Sailnet is 'welch'.

Makes of vessels we are looking at now- Allied, Endeavour, Ericson, Catalina 30(only), Morgan, Bristol, Pearson, etc.

Dave
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Old 09-04-2003, 09:33   #4
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Sounds like a good list to me. Really sharpen the pencil on the budget. The commissioning costs are more than you think. Any boat will require at least $2K just for stuff you'll need and that includes nothing for repairs. Make the money part work! Start saving more<g>.
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Old 09-04-2003, 19:15   #5
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Tnx!

Thanks for the help Paul, I will keep these things in mind.
Dave
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Old 10-04-2003, 20:45   #6
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Allied Web Site

If you are looking at Allied's, you may want to take a look at this website lots of information on the various models. Good solid older boats, that sell in your price range.

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/9282/

Colin
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Old 24-04-2003, 22:32   #7
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Hi Maui

I think you have gotten some good info elsewhere and your list seems like a fairly good starting place. I would add, if I have not elsewhere, the following:

Since you will be looking at older boats, you may wish to confine your search to boats with solid glass hulls and very strong hull to deck joints. Cored boats (balsa or foam) have a greater tendancy to allow water intrusion and can be expensive to repair. A solid glass boat just makes things easier for you.

Look at displacement, beam and LWL very carefully when comparing boats. You will be living aboard a relatively small boat 30-35 ft....so you want to maximize your living space in that size (LOA) range. LOA actually has very little to do with the amount of living space in a boat. The factors I have mentioned above are a better indicator of space (especially beam and displacement).

Speed. The New England PHRF rating site (www.phrfne.org) is a great place to get an idea of the relative speed of a boat you are looking at. Of course you are not out there to race and sailboats do not go anywhere fast...but that is not the point. a lower PHRF *can be* an indicator of a boat that will move out in light air, point higher and be able to clip miles off at sea. When trying to reach a lee shore in a blow, you want a boat with some power in her rig.

Your initial list: Allied, Endeavour, Ericson, Catalina 30(only), Morgan, Bristol, Pearson...welll...reasonable people will argue but I would place Allied, Morgan and Bristol in a category of offshore capable boats that I would not place Ericson Cat or Pearson in. Although, that said, the Ericson 35 IS a good model and someone is circumnavigating on a Catalina 27. So, my comment is just to be taken in general terms.

Hope this helps.

John
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Old 25-04-2003, 08:14   #8
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Thanks

John,
Thanks for the help. I had read that cruising boats are sold by the pound not by the foot. I knew beam would have alot to do with 'living space' but I sur didn't realize LWL would influence the space down below. Do you have suggestions for boats?
Dave
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Old 25-04-2003, 14:03   #9
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When I was looking for a boat I put together a list at: Offshore and Coastal Cruising Sailboats

I was looking for a lower cost boat that would be sturdy enough to do the Great Lakes, ICW and Bahamas. I am trying to set myself up for an early retirement so I am trying to save money and enjoy boating at the same time, not an easy task. I looked for affordable boats with the most room inside and a good usable floorplan of living space. Of course, sturdiness, good sailing characteristics, and many other criteria were added in to the compromise. I ended up with a Tanzer 28 and I am very happy with it. I don't plan on moving on board except for weekends, vacations and maybe a longer expedition or two. But I think the boat would make a good liveaboard for a single person or a couple. Maybe not forever but long enough to have a few adventures.

Skylark's Page

I would suggest that whatever type of boat you choose, you select one that has been lovingly cared for and that is in good condition. When you are starting out it helps to learn on a boat that is fully functional. There is a lot of maintenance and upgrading even on a boat in good condition so don't buy too much work with a fixer upper boat. At least don't get in over your head with a project boat.

I would also consider a trailerable boat in my situation. It would be nice to tow it down to Florida during the winter. But I sail on Lake Michigan which is pretty rough, and I need a heavy keel to deal with the weather, so I can't really use a trailer sailor at home. Think about a trailer sailor, if it fits what you want to do. I like boats and I would buy many boats if my wife would let me! I have my eye on a nice trailer sailor now but she's starting this "not another boat" whining again.

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Old 28-04-2003, 00:09   #10
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Hi Maui

Sorry I could not get back to you sooner. Looking at your criteria and price range, there is quite an extensive list of boats you might like. And, as we dicussed earlier, beam and LWL are two major considerations when comparing similar boats. I will go ahead and suggest a couple boats below...these are just my opinion and are more sea boats than performance or livaboard oriented.

I would start by suggesting you keep to the upper end of your LOA range. Here is an example why:

Two great boats, the Bristol 32 and 35. Both can cross oceans and I have known people who have lived aboard both. Here are the numbers:

Bristol 32: LWL 22ft, beam 9'5", displ 10,800
Bristol 35: LWL 24ft, beam 10ft, displ 12,000

When comparing these two, you are left with the inescapable conclusion that the Bristol 35 is a lot more boat. And it is. Its quite a bit faster too. In the 30-35 ft size range, every foot would count.

A few more boats I think are very worthwhile:

Tartan 34: nice Sparkman & Stephens design and good numbers:
LWL 25, beam 10'11", displ 11,200. I *think* this is a solid glass hull boat.

Allied SeaBreeze: 10'3" beam, LWL around 24 or 25...most of the 70's era 35's were designed much the same way.

On the low end, you could consider the Columbia 35: LWL 26'2", beam 11'4", 13,900 displ

If you want more speed, the Ericson 35 is likely the fastest boat that would fit your critieria above.

Hope this helps.

Best of luck

John
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Old 28-04-2003, 09:17   #11
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Makes and models

John,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have looked at Bristols. I really like all of the Allied models. Don't know much about Columbias. And I have browsed at quite a number of Ericsons, and like them. We have looked at the Tartan 34 but was warned about the cockpit not being very 'livable'.

Here are some other boats we are considering- Morgan, Mariner, Catalina 30, and Westsail 32.

I wish there was a spreadsheet or search engine on spec. including LOA, LWL, Beam, Keel-type, Displacement, Ballast, Berths, Engine type, etc. Yachtworld detailed search does pretty good but to get more precise would be nice. Or to be able to enter in "Beam 10 to 12 ft." and get 40 hits to choose from.

I don't know much about Cape Dory.

Dave
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Old 29-04-2003, 00:15   #12
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Hi Dave

I am glad I could be of any help. No doubt there are others here who might know more.

As to the other boats you are considering...I always liked Morgan's. Of course quite a variety of them were built and sometimes to different standards. But there are good Morg's out there and as a brand, they are well worth considering. The same with Mariner....the ones built in the US were very strong, solid hull boats. You cannot go wrong with one.

The Catalina 30 is one of the largest 30ft boats from that era. I had one and liked it. But...there are not great sailors and definately not built for offshore. I would stay away unless you would use it strictly for protected waters...or wanted a boat you could get into, learn on, and later sell quickly and easily.

The Westsail 32 is an old (but perhaps classic) design and a heavy, SLOW boat. To be sure she makes an attractive, even romantic livaboard and may be the most 'livable' 32. She CAN take you offshore with no problem. She is a boat for people who are looking for a heavy, full keel livaboard. I think some were owner finished...not sure.

Cape Dory's are very nice boats, classic yacht lines, good sailors, not particularly fast...but not slow. I would definately put them on your list. I do not think they are especially low priced, but worth looking for. They do tend to be in the old school narrow beam category...that is just something to consider along with everything else.

And I agree...I really wish YW would upgrade their search engine to include many more things, such as those you mentioned as well as the designer, so you could search for "Ted Hood", "Bill Trip", "John Alden". "Bob Perry" too.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 29-04-2003, 06:24   #13
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I went through, as most have, the same search. I started with some history of sailing, mostly heavy displacement, classic cruisers. I had a first mate who was not a sailor and needed to be supportive of the boat, mostly interior space. I really liked a Allied Seawind I found here in upstate NY, it is still available because the first mate was really turned off by the "old style", very narrow, could go anywhere but not a lot of space. We looked at over 75 boats in person and countless online at mnay of the same places. I kept going back to the need to have a good deal of performance and an interior that the first mate would like and there fore spend time on. Ended up with a really well cared for, C&C 29 MkII. It does not have some of the classic lines of the Allied and prob not some of the off shore capabilities of the other heavy boats but...... sails wonderfully, looks beautiful and best of all, first mate thinks it is great. Oh, we did look at the Catalina 30, actually looked a several and found the quality quite a bit lacking compared to what I wanted, but a lot of interior space for the money.

As has been said before, there is no perfect boat, except the one you want next. I am glad I chose a boat that has a good turn of speed, cruises great in light air, and has all the amenities that the first mate wants (hot and cold pressure water, shower, refigeration, roller furling, auto pilot, aft quarter berth big enough to sleep in). When we saw it, we bought it. Had done the looking, knew what we both wanted and what we both would settle for. Ended up we both got what we wanted.
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Old 29-04-2003, 23:09   #14
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C&C's have a well deserved reputation for quality build and excellent sailing characteristics. By and large, most are not considered real offshore cruising boats, even the Landfall series. But, that said, this is only because most of the modern C&C's are geared more towards racing than cruising and thus are built to be lighter, with no exceptional tankage.

Not sure when they started, but C&C's are all balsa cored. This is a characteristic that many cruising sailors do not want in an older boat. BUT....the OLDER C&C's were solid glass! So, a 70's era C&C would definately be a boat to look at. In fact, one of my favorite C&C's is a 70's era 35. It is a very nice boat all the way around. They are not too hard to find and, Maui, you could probably get one in your price range (35k?). They have a very comfy accomodations below ...more so than the bristol 35. Well worth checking. There are some other C&C's between 29-35ft worth checking. Some good, some not as good. I am not familiar with any other than the 35.

Add it to the list.

My best to all

John
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Old 30-04-2003, 07:14   #15
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C & C s

Thanks John, I plan to check them out. Dave
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