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Old 31-03-2015, 12:48   #1
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Boat choice for cruising med

Hope someone can give advice on this: my wife and I plan to spend 2016/17 cruising in the med and I aim to buy (second hand) sometime 2015/16. I'm taken with early 90's Grand Soleil 42's which seem decent and affordable, also early 2000's Beneteau 393 or slightly larger. We want a boat which feels safe and seaworthy but is homely too and well laid out for liveaboard life. Any views?
(PS apologies if this has been discussed before: didn't find a thread)

Jollyrower
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Old 31-03-2015, 13:13   #2
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

A decent boat should not feel safe and sea worthy it should be safe and sea worthy. That said any production boat that has been maintained will do just fine in the Med, no reason to blow your brains out buying an expensive yacht. The Med is an easy area to sail/motor in as long as you keep an eye on the weather. Have a great time!
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Old 31-03-2015, 14:30   #3
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

We have done some sailing in the med, just not beyond short holidays, hence the request for advice on boat choice for live-aboard. We need to start narrowing the choice somehow. Have browsed a fair bit on brokers' sites but sooner or later I need to go visit some of them.
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Old 31-03-2015, 14:42   #4
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Oh, and another thing: costs - moorings and berths here in the UK get massively more expensive as boat length increases so how is it in the Med? How much more costly is it to run, say, a 50ft boat compared to a 40ft one there?
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:01   #5
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

I'am cruising the med now for the last 3 years with a Wauquiez Centurion 48. Location Golfe de Lyon, either very windy or no wind at all. Depending on your ambitions you can either go for a production ship that you fancy and take the sailing performance for granted or go for quality choice like I did if I you want to travel further and under all conditions. At the moment it is a buyers market so I would not hesitate to go for quality.
The abilities and the dependability of the French wharfs did so far not impress me. They speak hardly any english and I find them difficult to deal with.
I did most of the refitting myself, an observation that you have to be aware of is that a lot of the boats that I see lying for sale have not been looked after for a long time.
Prices along the Spanish coast are a bit cheaper than along the English South coast. Fot example in Barcelona I pay about 90/ nigth in the Marina, Port Bou about 75 and 50/night for a mooring in Cadaques. French marina's are about the same. Of course the Riviera is more expensive.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:06   #6
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Hi
Just like the UK, berth prices are size dependent. Here in Spain quite a lot of places charge more for your electric and water if the boat is over 14m. I would look for a boat out here if I was you. In places like Almerimar there are lots of boats for sale by people who found it wasn't for them. You could get a bargain! Also think about fuel and power. There is a lot of motoring weather here and you want to get the most out of solar if you can. Finally don't feel you have to have a boat which drives well in astern to do the med mooring. There are lots of long keel boats here which go in bows to the quay and run their passarelle off the front.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:57   #7
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

If you like sailing, go for a GS.

If you like marinas, go for a Bene.

You will get "something in-between" if you buy a Bene First.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:03   #8
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Another thought is that things like 393 seem to have actually pretty small salon area: they were built (I think) to maximize the cabins - aiming for charter business.

So I say a Bene will have better Med style cockpit but a GS may have better salon area, for a couple.

b.
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:19   #9
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Just completed 10 year's of cruising the Med from Gib to Tunisia to Croatia to Turkey and back. The Eastern Med is dicey now, but still many, many opportunities. Marina prices are highest in France and certain high-end places like Portofino, Monaco, Porto Cervo, etc. In our 44 ft boat (13 m) we paid as little as nothing in some "city docks" to a max of 90 E per night in Portofino (when the Euro was 1 E = USD 1.50.) Generally, moorings in most of the Med averaged about USD 25 per night.

I would look for a boat with the comforts you require, a decent dodger for passaging making, build a deck awning if you plan to cruise in July or August. If you will cruise with two people, roller furling is a must, as is an autopilot. Navigation is relatively easy, but invest in Ron Heikel's cruising guides for good local info. Weather is always problematic, and be prepared for anything from a full on Mistral (force 7-8) or flat calm. Mistrals are only supposed to blow in the transitional months, but we had (at least) one every summer. If you a planning on night time passages, AIS is essential as there is significant ferry/commercial traffic. Diesel is expensive, so a fuel efficient engine is a plus.

Lastly ... enjoy the adventure!
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:47   #10
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Jollyrower, You current boat are Dehler? We are going to Holland watch and probably buy for one estonian couple also Dehler: exactly for same kind live-abord and world/bluewater cruising. Dehler 41DS, almost "new": for sail yachtbrokers | listings for sail

For quality sailing: self-tacking headsail (2 tracks!!!), 2 or 3 mainsail reefs, inside helm/autopiloting for bad wheather, good outside helm, safe cocpit, electric winches, "quick" anchor etc. Davits, targa for solars and watermaker must install. Decksaloon is best choise i think. One good priced 41DS: Dehler 41 DS Used Boat for Sale 1996 | TheYachtMarket

Most important - very good speed: 200Nm a day not unusual. Friends just bought Hanse 530 and we sailed from Greifswald to Tallinn, good sunny weather, wind 8-9 m/s, good sailor and best result was approx. 175 miles 24 hours. But it's 12 feet longer... Sailing speed short-handed is important!
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:51   #11
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Grand Soleil are better boat than Beneteau but if you are buying a 25 year old boat the boat condition will be far more important than the boat.

For the Med you need a boat that sails well with light winds and that can take a blow. Many boats can do that. From that vintage I would look for Dufour, Wauquiez, GrandSoleil, Comet, Dehler among many others.

The most important thing is a good Naval Expert that helps you to find a boat in good condition. I know a good one, Italian, speaking English. He can offer you much better advise than me. If you want PM me and I will give you the contact.
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Old 01-04-2015, 13:29   #12
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

I make my refitting in Fano, south of Pesaro. Those people built Wallys up till 130'... some are busy at full carbon new 80' for making and features, some worked in the Oracle team.

others attend brwnd new Ferretti, Pershing, Dominator for ww clientele

They also sell Bavaria and GS officially! A true gentleman, the boss...

I found here the people who made up for my Nauta54' in 1989 :-)

MED: calm and bursty, short waves...I prefer a heavy boat w fine code0 or code1 and a storm blade...
Bimini has become a necessity, autopilot (better two, one hydraulic if larger than 45')

Old GS52' would be gorgeous, or a Solaris47. Or a Swan44 (best for you, imo)

GS 45 or 46' (?) had structural problems, the GS 42' is a milestone!

in italy you find many S&S designs, a rarity elsewhere...

Beware engine brand.....must be easy to get parts

With 80,000 bucks you buy e.thing.... but maintenance of 40' is say 100, 50' is 160, and 54' is 200 (15,000/y for intensive annual use)

Sardinia harbours are super cheap off season, and Livorno too is not pricey.

PS in POrto san GIORGIO There are irresponsible crooks..

Feel free to PM me :-)
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Old 01-04-2015, 13:37   #13
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Hi, I live and sail in Eastern Med, and I would recommend you to try Turkish waters (see Rod Heikell's "Turkish Waters and Cyprus Pilot"). I think, you could get bargain prices for the boat you are looking for in Bodrum, Marmaris, and Fethiye-Gocek areas.
Here are some sources:
Turkey Sunbird
Brokerage | GINO GROUP - YACHTS, YACHTING, BROKERAGE, CHARTER, BENETTI, AZIMUT, TRAVEL, TECHNICAL SERVICE, AZIMUT, TURKEY

Marinas and rates:
Setur Marinas Home Page
http://www.marti.com.tr/Tesis.aspx
Albatros Marina - Home Page | Albatros Marina Marmaris - Marmaris / Turkey
Milta Bodrum Marina
Marinas in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-04-2015, 16:58   #14
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Choosing a boat is a highly personal decision, so rather than suggest a model let me offer some things to think about.

There is usually a break in slip pricing at 12m, and again at 15m. If you can keep the boat under 12m you will save a lot of money, and conversely going over 15m will be much more expensive. Also, longer berths can be harder to find, which can be limiting. Finally, some of the old harbors can be pretty tight getting into, which is an advantage for a shorter and more maneuverable boat.

Engines tend to be used a lot in the Med - make sure the one you get is in good condition, and powerful. I had an 18hp "auxiliary" which was not really adequate for pushing into wind and waves. While I recommend a boat with good sailing abilities, it should be powered like a motor sailor.

If you want to buy a boat with VAT-paid status the ownership change must occur inside the EU or it will be lost. So buying a boat in Turkey will leave you having to pay tax if you want to keep it inside the EU, unless it is moved to an EU country for the sale. Many boats, both EU and American/Canadian/Aussie/Kiwi/etc owned, are for sale in Turkey because they are not VAT-paid (part of why they can be had inexpensively), which may be an issue for cruising in the Med and for reselling when it is time to go home. There will be more flexibility if you buy a VAT-paid boat located in the EU.

[Edit: I lived in Marmaris for 4 years, and would recommend not doing business with Gino if buying in Turkey. I don't wish to elaborate publicly - just be warned.]

Greg
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Old 01-04-2015, 17:35   #15
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Re: Boat choice for cruising med

Wife and I cruised for 3 years on a Brewer 42. Absolutely loved it. Never regretted our choice for one single moments. Honestly, we never filled all of our lockers and felt completely safe during several big blows! Worth a look!!!
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