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Old 12-06-2016, 10:07   #1
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Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Hello everyone!

I know you have probably encountered a hundred million threads, that have similar titles, start off exactly the same way, and as much as I hate to do it, I do feel that I need to keep you in good practice answering duplicate threads in your spare time so here goes!!

I have been dreaming of sailing for a very long time, my wife and I are nearing a point in our lives where the dream will shortly become a reality if we chose to take the plunge. I have spent countless hours going over forum threads, interweb write ups, marketing articles, etc. I have basically crunched out that start up fee's for such an adventure/lifestyle would be (from the internet research that I have done).

300-500k - This includes boat/provisions/emergencies/etc.

I have been looking at mainly used boats 2000-2007. The brands that I like are Oyster 47 / Hallberg-Rassy 46 / Hylas 49 / Jeanneau 49DS / Beneteau 46.

Given my budget, the first 3 brands that I listed above would eat up a considerable amount of our budget, and from what I can tell they do not come with water makers, etc. I am really not interested in spending 300k on a boat that needs rigging, sails, water maker installed, etc before we set sail.

I really REALLY like the way the Beneteau / Jeanneau look, their cabins are not as impressive as the higher end yachts, but liveable for sure. My main concern with these 2 brands is that I am not 100% sure that they're intended for BW cruising. They're obviously a lot cheaper, for a newer model than the first three brands that I listed above, which directly equates to more time on the water, which is a huge plus. I have encountered so much conflicting opinions all over the web about these brands. I have came to the conclusion through internet research that I need to spend at least 450k on a boat, or I will sink in the middle of the ocean......

I would like a vessel that is large enough for 4 surfboards, diving gear, compressor for tanks, 2 x kiteboarding setups, and enough storage for 2-4 people / provisions for 4 + months, plenty of room to lay about, just something large enough to be comfortable. Washer too!

I would also like whatever I buy to have some resale value after our first couple years just in case we decide we want something else.

Do you think that I have narrowed down the boats properly?

I basically need all of the information that you can give me. You link it, and I will read it, and then come back here and ask more questions.

Just so everyone is on the same page. I do NOT plan on selling everything I own to fund this expedition. This is more something that I need to do to complete my life if that makes any sense. My plan is pretty simple, but may not be the best approach, so correct me if you think this is wrong.

1- sailing lessons (to make sure this something we really want. I looked @ boat charters, and a 3 month trip down to BVI would cost quite a bit, which in my mind would be a set back)

2- Diesel mechanic classes. Basically I will attempt to get familiar with all components on the ship, so that I will be prepared to fix anything that breaks.

2- set sail out of Texas, and go south for a season or 2, BVI, explore, surf, live, etc

3- ship boat to the west coast

4- Leave the US behind for a few years.

5- Who knows !

Would also like to add that I am going to join a couple racing teams in my area before I take sailing lessons. I am fortunate enough to have that readily available in my area.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:18   #2
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

So, have you been sailing before?
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:23   #3
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Buy the Oyster and don't look back.

You won't be sorry.

And don't worry about the small stuff like the watermaker, you can buy a new one for $5,000... chump change.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:24   #4
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
So, have you been sailing before?
Never sailed before. I kiteboard =D, surfed a couple times, wakeboard, been snorkeling for abalone, etc....
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:26   #5
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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Buy the Oyster and don't look back.

You won't be sorry.
Ya it is definitely my favorite, but for 400kish, and the fact that I have only found them over sea's.....
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:30   #6
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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Ya it is definitely my favorite, but for 400kish, and the fact that I have only found them over sea's.....
Call the Oyster brokerage in Newport, RI and let them find you the right boat. We found ours in the UK, and now live half the year here in the Med.

Change is good.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:36   #7
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Howdy!

First, I did not see you mention where you are or if you have any sailing experience yet at all. Neither does your CF Profile have any information on that, I checked. Answer those two questions as it will help others help you.

Secondly, the use of the word "BW" by which I take it you mean "Blue Water" could mean many things. You did mention "sail out of Texas" so I suppose you mean into the Gulf or do you mean the Caribbean? Or Circumnavigation?

IF you are looking for advice on a Blue Water boat, there are, as you know by now, many threads on that topic, and the characteristics or features or opinions on what a "Blue Water Boat" means are debatable. Do a search of this forum for a very lengthy discussion on the topic "Production Boats for Blue Water" and you will find many issues and opinons. It may take you days to read all the posts in that one thread.

Here is a Google Custom Search of CF for the term "Blue Water"
https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...ter&gsc.page=1


IF your budget is $300K, (NOTE: You did not specify dollars or Euros), you will have many choices available that could hold four people on extended cruises. As to the year and model or design or make, that is a personal choice you will have to make. Sailors on this forum are sailing and cruising in the Oysters, Moody's, Amels, and other higher end boats, but so are many more sailors in the "mid level" boats like the Beneteaus, Jeanneaus, and others.

You mentioned at the end of of your post your plans to join "racing teams" before taking any sailing lessons and you mentioned something about the cost of charter in the BWI being too expensive (that is what I took as your meaning of your statements). On those topics I have these suggestions:

1. Assuming you DON"T know much about sailing a big boat, I suggest you invest in lessons in a "liveaboard" school where you will see what it is like to be on a boat IN a location where you will face conditions that are challenging. To me, this means a place like the BWI or San Francisco Bay (the windiest city in the USA). Reason? Because you will see what forces are involved in hoisting large sails in wind and reefing and handling a boat in more "BW" conditions. IF you are in Texas, I don't think you will get the same experience on a lake or bay (Galveston). There are several sailing schools based in the Caribbean (on Grenada is one I recall that has a member posting here, as "LSI" I recall).
There is where I would go for several weeks of classes and experience, IF I had the money and no previous experience.

Another good place would be San Francisco Bay, as it is one of the very best locations for learning sailing in challenging conditions and higher winds (20 - 30 knots) during the typical summer. IF you want a tip to a sailing school there, send me a PM, but there are several in that area, though some are much better than others. Anticipate a few thousand dollars for any good school to get you through several levels of ASA or US Sailing courses (to "Bare Boat Charter"). IF that seems expensive, you need to rethink your choice of boats.

2. I would take the sailing lessons BEFORE joining a racing crew. I think you will learn more of the basics of handling a boat and sailing fundamentals by reading and practicing on a school boat, compared to sitting on a boat rail as "rail meat" if you have no experience. It is nice to be in a race and watch what happens, but IF you have no skills at all, you will not be doing what you could be learning in a school boat during lessons.

Good luck on your boat hunt and future sailing adventures!
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:38   #8
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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Call the Oyster brokerage in Newport, RI and let them find you the right boat.
I have always been a little leery about buying the base model any thing, but I really like that boat lol. The exterior is amazing, and I LOVE the cabin layout,
I cannot express enough how much I love the cabin layout.

What are your thought on the Jeanneau, and Beneteau? I would appreciate your feedback on those 2 if you wouldn't mind. Also do you have any book recommendations that I can pour over for a few months?
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:45   #9
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Check out the Voyager's Handbook by Beth Leonard, gives good insight on choosing a boat
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:53   #10
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Ok, which came first the chicken or the egg.? It has been put to rest, depending on whether or not you've already had breakfast.

Classes on the internet, will improve your learning curve, at a minimum of expense. It will make the commands on the racing vessel more coherent.

Charter does sound expensive, however the change of heart expense after the vessel purchase, will take a lot longer to recover from.


Still surrounded by anchors.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:58   #11
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

I live in Oklahoma City. I think my boat budget would be 400k max to be honest. Ideally the 200-300k range is where I would like to be, but if the right boat came along I would consider spending more.

My only problem chartering is that for a 2-3 month adventure I would invest (rough estimate from internet pricing) 50-90k? I did not come from money, so I would really need something tangible to justify spending that kind of money. Chartering just seemed to be more expensive than flying/hotel accommodations.

Thank you for pointing out a live aboard school. I factored 6-9k for sailing lessons (for my wife, and myself), and I really love SF.

The racing idea came about from different threads while internet browsing. I have considered buying a tiny sailboat, and just toying around the local lake to get my feet wet.

Thank you for your reply!

I am by no means rich. I just think that I know what I want, so I am taking the steps to ensure that I get exactly what I want. I am a firm believer that preparation is key, you get what you pay for, and don't put all of your eggs in one basket. I have just seen a lot of different stories of people doing what I want to do, on virtually no funds, and some how making it happen. I wouldn't give up my future for an epic sailing journey, but I just can't really see me happy in my future without one?

I want to sail around the world, and visit all of the countries that I can, without resorting to begging for youtube donations to fund my lifestyle LOL!

I am very aware that you can't learn everything in a classroom, and that hands on is the only way that is why I am here. I have researched sailing here and there for many years, but I am finally to the point where it's time to get my ducks in a row, and pull the trigger.
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:04   #12
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

MarkJ, a prolific poster on this site that has circumnavigated on his 40' Beneteau;

Our Life At Sea - Sailing Yacht 'Sea Life'

Don't be put off by his wide eyed grin, he's not totally crazy, just Australian.

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Old 12-06-2016, 11:06   #13
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

You should first definitely learn to sail on any boat, whether it be a Laser or a smaller 20-something foot, to understand winds and how the boat moves. You will already be ahead of the curve having kiteboard experience.

Once you learn how a sailboat behaves, then you can easily jump on a larger boat and apply the same mechanics.

You mention doing a charter: a 2-3 MONTH charter is absolutely ridiculous if you have never done any sailing before. Geez, take it easy! You could do a simple week charter or even a few days and get the same feel for everything.

Overall, the more sailing you can do the better. Get on every sailboat you can. For the budget you mentioned, you can buy practically a brand new Jeanneau or Beneteau. Something to consider.
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:11   #14
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asus View Post
I have always been a little leery about buying the base model any thing, but I really like that boat lol. The exterior is amazing, and I LOVE the cabin layout,
I cannot express enough how much I love the cabin layout.

What are your thought on the Jeanneau, and Beneteau? I would appreciate your feedback on those 2 if you wouldn't mind. Also do you have any book recommendations that I can pour over for a few months?
Our prior boat was a Hunter 450, we liked the Jeaneau 54DS and looked at one. The Beneteau 58 is what got us interested in upsizing to the Oyster 53, but after you look at the others, then take a close look at the Oyster and see how well it's thought out, plus the high quality workmanship and components.... if you have the money..... you'll no longer be interested in the other brands. Period, 'nuff said. And a BIG plus is the Oyster aftermarket customer support network that simply can't be matched anywhere in the market place. You need something.... They get it for you and send it to you anywhere in the world.

I'm sure there's going to be some hurt feelings... sorry, that's just the way it is.

We also looked at Island Packet and Tayana. Tayanas are nice. Made a few offers on Tayana 58. Found the Island Packet 485 to be overpriced for the quality.

Our next boat will be a 50ft power catamaran. For the price of a set of sails, I can burn many tons of diesel, and they offer more than twice the living space and priceless views.
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:28   #15
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Oyster has been #1 in my mind since I first started looking at countless other brands. They're insanely expensive used, but I feel almost confident that anyone willing to purchase new is the owner that I would want to buy from to begin with. It's very clear that I know absolutely nothing about yachts, but if they're anything like cars then in my mind someone who buys a brand new Porshe, is also going to do all of the maintenance.

Like I said before the layout of the Oyster is everything that I think I want. The Jeanneau is most definitely a downgrade in every aspect, but I just like the bang for your buck appeal. Best analogy I can think of is it's like buying a condo vs buying a house when you compare the two. I can handle living in a condo as long as I can enjoy everything the outside world has to offer. I'm not that picky.

Jeanneau / Beneteau to my untrained eye have similar exterior aesthetics when compared to the Oyster. Please do not laugh, but the side windows on the Oyster with the dark sun screen looks amazing. It's like the Maserati of the sea lol..
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