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Old 12-06-2016, 11:42   #16
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Here's an Oyster 46 caught out in 55 knots of wind for a couple of days here in the Med. Try this on a Beneteau or Jeaneau and you'll be wearing a pantload for sure.

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Old 12-06-2016, 11:53   #17
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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You should first definitely learn to sail on any boat, whether it be a Laser or a smaller 20-something foot, to understand winds and how the boat moves. You will already be ahead of the curve having kiteboard experience.

Once you learn how a sailboat behaves, then you can easily jump on a larger boat and apply the same mechanics.

You mention doing a charter: a 2-3 MONTH charter is absolutely ridiculous if you have never done any sailing before. Geez, take it easy! You could do a simple week charter or even a few days and get the same feel for everything.

Overall, the more sailing you can do the better. Get on every sailboat you can. For the budget you mentioned, you can buy practically a brand new Jeanneau or Beneteau. Something to consider.
To put it in perspective we were looking at homes in Oahu, but sailing has been something I have been interested in for a long time. If we did purchase property somewhere, then we are stuck there.
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:56   #18
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

I wouldn't mind sailing a Beneteau into seas like that... but that's just me personally
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:03   #19
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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I live in Oklahoma City. I think my boat budget would be 400k max to be honest. Ideally the 200-300k range is where I would like to be, but if the right boat came along I would consider spending more.

My only problem chartering is that for a 2-3 month adventure I would invest (rough estimate from internet pricing) 50-90k? I did not come from money, so I would really need something tangible to justify spending that kind of money. Chartering just seemed to be more expensive than flying/hotel accommodations.

Thank you for pointing out a live aboard school. I factored 6-9k for sailing lessons (for my wife, and myself), and I really love SF.

The racing idea came about from different threads while internet browsing. I have considered buying a tiny sailboat, and just toying around the local lake to get my feet wet.

Thank you for your reply!

I am by no means rich. I just think that I know what I want, so I am taking the steps to ensure that I get exactly what I want. I am a firm believer that preparation is key, you get what you pay for, and don't put all of your eggs in one basket. I have just seen a lot of different stories of people doing what I want to do, on virtually no funds, and some how making it happen. I wouldn't give up my future for an epic sailing journey, but I just can't really see me happy in my future without one?

I want to sail around the world, and visit all of the countries that I can, without resorting to begging for youtube donations to fund my lifestyle LOL!

I am very aware that you can't learn everything in a classroom, and that hands on is the only way that is why I am here. I have researched sailing here and there for many years, but I am finally to the point where it's time to get my ducks in a row, and pull the trigger.
I think I understand how you feel about your dreams.

Here are few quick suggestions based on what you wrote above and earlier. I will be brief.

1. Take lessons before joining a racing crew.
Many kinds of boats race, so it is hard to generalize, but...in general, racing boats do not anchor or worry about many of the things that cruisers worry about or need or want or use. Such as anchoring. I think you will learn MORE by taking a series of good lessons in a challenging location than you will by racing on a race boat crew on which you may be nothing more than moveable weight sitting on the rail (rail meat).

2. Take lessons in a location where you will learn about tides, currents, and in a place with consistent stronger winds each day (generally not on a typical inland lake or many coastal locations). Most inland lakes will not challenge you much. There are MANY sailors who are accustomed to lake sailing in benign or "perfect" conditions with little wind. Coastal and "blue water" sailing can be very different from inland lake sailing. For example, you might find that someone in your family gets seasick on the rolling ocean swells or waves and decides sailing is not for them. It happens. I have literally seen this happen on a coastal cruise where a couple left the dock with talk of sailing around the world, but finished a few days later swearing that idea off after being seasick all day. It happens.

3. Don't set your heart on a particular boat yet.
No matter how good it looks in the photos. Get some experience sailing on other people's boats so you can learn something about how boats work and what you like or don't like about those boats. What looks good in a photo in a brochure or on a website may not "feel" right when you are on the boat. Visit boats in marinas or at boat shows and get aboard them and check the headroom, the layouts, and the quality. Take a knowledgeable sailor friend with you and ask them to point out what they see as good and bad features. Take their opinion for what it is worth to you. But get someone who knows boats (not the salesman) to show you what may make a boat fit your needs better. Why is a (X) a good idea on a boat this size? Why is this feature better than what we saw on another boat? What would happen if I were sick or disabled and my wife or partner had to handle this boat alone?

4. Don't spend all of your budget on ANY boat asking price!
Expect ANY boat (even new boats) to have thousands of dollars in needed or wanted changes or fixes. For example, if someone gave me $400K and said "go spend it on a boat and sail around the world on THAT budget" I would spend about $125K (or less) on a boat SELLING price, spend about $40K on refit and "cruising goodies" and then use the rest for the necessary (and fun) costs of actually sailing it around the world for 24 months (or more).

5. Find out, by sailing on larger boats owned by other people, if YOU (and wife or partner) feel comfortable handling a larger boat (over 30 feet LOA ).
There are threads on this forum where you will see a very definite GAP between sailors who feel they can sail a boat singlehanded of any size, versus other sailors who feel they would NOT be comfortable handling a sailboat that is "too large" for them. You will need to learn that for yourself, based on YOU (and your partner) actually sailing on larger boats. You can't get that from a book and should NOT get it simply from someone's comments on a forum. YOU will have to see what YOU (and your wife/partner) feel comfortable handling in a variety of coastal conditions (and where there is wind above 15 knots).
__________

Take my comments with a splash of saltwater!

I hope you find this helpful, but my main advice is for you to learn for yourself. I am not the most experienced sailor on this forum, and I really learn something every day from reading here, from a wide range of sailors. But reading about it is one thing, experiencing it is another. And, despite the similarities we may have, everyone's experiences and preferences will be different. What I wrote above is based on my experiences, my learning, and my preferences. Others will differ.
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:03   #20
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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I wouldn't mind sailing a Beneteau into seas like that... but that's just me personally
Just be sure to bring along some extra shorts.
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:21   #21
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Asus, looking at boat pictures on the web may or may not give you an idea of the aesthetics of different boat brands but it will not tell you anything about the construction quality. I'm not advocating one boat or another for you but I am saying that for the use you are describing you need to think about the structure, tankage, storage, accessibility to all major components so you can inspect, maintain and repair.

I love your enthusiasm for this experience. You seem to be going about it thoughtfully. Don't skimp on giving yourself and your family/crew real experience before you jump into a major boat purchase. This is unlike anything you have experienced. You can do this but don't underestimate how much you have to learn by experience before you are ready to take on the sea or know what boat you need to do it with.


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Old 12-06-2016, 12:27   #22
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Don'tlisten to all the nonsense.

You need an Amel!

If I was in your shoes, I would also consider a Beneteau 57... best built Bene ever, fast and Bene lost their shorts on eveyone they sold. It is one of those exceptions you want to investigate.

GL
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:44   #23
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

You need to get involved and learn more so you can make an informed decision. Everyone on this forum has their own bias and it won't be long before the Cat guys jump into the Frey. You also need to be true to yourself so get out there and learn to sail and then crew on a passage, you may find you love it or maybe it's over your head (no pun intended ) once you have a little experience you might have a better idea of the type of sailing you and your family want to do and that will start leading you in a particular direction. It's all fun so enjoy yourself. PS Did anyone tell you how to choose your wife, similar with boats.
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Old 12-06-2016, 13:07   #24
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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Asus, looking at boat pictures on the web may or may not give you an idea of the aesthetics of different boat brands but it will not tell you anything about the construction quality. I'm not advocating one boat or another for you but I am saying that for the use you are describing you need to think about the structure, tankage, storage, accessibility to all major components so you can inspect, maintain and repair.

I love your enthusiasm for this experience. You seem to be going about it thoughtfully. Don't skimp on giving yourself and your family/crew real experience before you jump into a major boat purchase. This is unlike anything you have experienced. You can do this but don't underestimate how much you have to learn by experience before you are ready to take on the sea or know what boat you need to do it with.


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All or nothing personality disorder. I would love to claim that I am a glass half full kind of guy, but in all honesty I am a (why isnt my glass full) kind of guy LOL! I need balance....
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Old 12-06-2016, 13:15   #25
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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You need to get involved and learn more so you can make an informed decision. Everyone on this forum has their own bias and it won't be long before the Cat guys jump into the Frey. You also need to be true to yourself so get out there and learn to sail and then crew on a passage, you may find you love it or maybe it's over your head (no pun intended ) once you have a little experience you might have a better idea of the type of sailing you and your family want to do and that will start leading you in a particular direction. It's all fun so enjoy yourself. PS Did anyone tell you how to choose your wife, similar with boats.
Can you see it now?

Forever known as the guy who bought a nice boat, put it into the rocks the first day out, your 13 year old filmed the entire thing on his go pro, posted it on FB, making me a youtube sensation!!...
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Old 12-06-2016, 14:06   #26
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

If I were to guess from how you asked your question and from the spectrum of the boats you listed, I would guess you may be better off just holding on till you feel more at home with which boat is what and which boat would be a good match to your sailing preferences and skills.

From my own boating experience that spans across ownership and helping others becoming owners (and some of them becoming ex-owners) I can only tell you most new owners underestimate the amts necessary for BW prep of the yacht as well as we tend to overestimate the excess of our future sailing adventures. It does not matter that much which boat we own as long as she is docked alongsides. Still, money-wise, given 300k in hand, I would feel secure paying up to 100k for a good and sound sample of any quality s/h boat.

I can tell you out flat too that I have sailed a HR46 in open waters (as a preparateur and a delivery mate) and later our friend took this boat round the Atlantic. The only damage the boat suffered was because of the mistakes of the crew and her skipper. In other words, she fared very well. We worked on a 2003 hull that went BW about 2008.

Good luck hunting and have fun buying, owning and hopefully sailing.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 12-06-2016, 15:16   #27
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

I have been 55-65kt in number of boats including Bavaria 40 / 2002 - which I consider a very low quality and awful, but still I do not think it was a problem... I do not like the big cats in string winds especially this gin-palaces with the elephant dog-house on top and the HUGE wind resistance - one of the time two of this cats were together with me and the result was that the rubbish bav40 was able to get in the harbour but the cats needed to run out of the wind after 2h try to go on engine against the wind and not moving...

read about 1979 Fastnet disaster - and you will learn a lot - bigger boat is not safer, better designed boat is safer !

ALL chartering designed boat are not preferable for my taste - e.g. Jan, Bene, Bav are OK but before 95-97 everything after that is cheap charter boats for good weather coastal hopping mostly under power.

I would go with a boat in the size of 34-35 and with classification before the EC classes A,BC,D was discover and the original 8 ( from 1 to 8 - was in use ) you need class 1 boat - around the world navigation - currently the A is combination of 1 + 2 - and may be part of 3 e.g. cheap, big living space comfy boats , not for bad weather.

my preference will be boats like :

Bavaria 38 Ocean
Bavaria, 340, 390, 410 Caribic
Jeanneau Sun Liberty 34 - personal favourite - as this is the boat that I have
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 34.2, 37.1
Contessa 32 ( the safest one possible- can survive EVERY storm , but very small inside and you will be wet almost all the time)

Small boat do not always mean discomfort the old boats are very well designed and in a small space you have everything you need and after the first week realising the been wet in bad weather is not much of a problem and the actual important thing the boat to be able to sail stable in the direction that you want is the top priority....

take a look at the book :

Handling Storms at Sea : voile_gros_temps.pdf

btw: I'm based in the most windy and dangerous are in south Europe - "Gulf on Lyon" where we regularly have VERY strong wind - just take a look at the forecast - and I'm VERY glad that I have put my bet on Sub Liberty 34 and not on some of this new shiny gin-palaces..
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Old 12-06-2016, 15:43   #28
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

Just go sailing and worry about the other stuff later!
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Old 12-06-2016, 15:44   #29
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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Here's an Oyster 46 caught out in 55 knots of wind for a couple of days here in the Med. Try this on a Beneteau or Jeaneau and you'll be wearing a pantload for sure.

Did the keel manage to stay on the Oyster?
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Old 12-06-2016, 16:00   #30
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Re: Boat brand decisions for eventual BW stuffs

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Did the keel manage to stay on the Oyster?
Yes, the keels have actually stayed attached to all Oysters except for the 82 footer that someone decided to stretch into an 88 footer. Which happens to be primary reason for my wife and I deciding to hold off on ordering our Oyster 88.5.
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