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Old 25-08-2016, 06:30   #1
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Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

My girlfriend and I are looking to order a new boat under 24m (78') on which we would spend the next 5-6 years cursing around the globe.

Money is not an issue. Considerations are: safety, ease of handling, performance/speed, looks (interior and decks) and comfort. Most of the time it would be two of us + dog. Occasionally we would have visits from friends and family. Additionally, we plan to hire 2 additional crew members for longer cross ocean passages.

We narrowed down to these three:
  • Nautor's Swan 78
  • Hanse 675
  • Oyster 675 / Oyster 745

From all 3, Hanse has the best looks, but I have read lot of issues from owners who bought a new boat. Personally I do not have experience with Hanse.
Oyster - proven as a good bluewater
Swan - my favorite, great performance and sleek likes (which might be ruined a bit after equipping the boat for long cruises - solar/wind generators..etc)

Experience, pro/cons? All 3 are great boats when it comes to safety and ease of handling. In the meantime we plan to charter boars from all 3 builders.

Thanks!
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Old 25-08-2016, 10:41   #2
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

Are you going to be handling this boat by yourself?
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Old 26-08-2016, 02:28   #3
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

My girlfriend is also experienced sailor, so 2 of us.
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Old 26-08-2016, 02:31   #4
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

Swan is probably the pick of those marques, followed by Oyster with Hanse a distant 3rd and I would imagine that the price tags will reflect this, but hell, if you are gonna spend several million on a brand new 80 footer, might as well canvas a bunch of anonymous internet "experts"
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Old 26-08-2016, 03:26   #5
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

You are asking people on this forum, who don't sail boats of that size for recommendations?

My suggestion is speak to a few top naval architects or boat builders and ask them for a proposal. Any hull of that size should be basically customized and built to the buyer's specific needs... probably using an existing mold... if it is GRP.

Swan is world class... but there are others I am sure who will / can do brilliant and string and sensible designs which look great. Looks is very subjective.

I watched some Hansa video tours yesterday and some of their designs were cool. But a lot of their aesthetic and "practical" decisions I didn't care for.

Check out this for example:

Contest 72CS | Exquisite Dutch semi-custom yachting

The virtual tour is pretty cool...

Contest 72CS | Exquisite Dutch semi-custom yachting
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Old 26-08-2016, 04:33   #6
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

The Oyster will most likely be set up nicer for cruising as a couple, easy buttons for everything. The Swan is also an excellent choice but starts getting a little big at 78ft due to draft and handling sails if they're not equipped with hydraulic furling. Hanse really isn't in the same class, but is still a nice boat that can do the job.

With the Oyster, you may not even need the extra crew members most of the time, on the Swan an extra crew member might become a necessity.
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Old 26-08-2016, 05:23   #7
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

Why stop at 78'
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Old 26-08-2016, 05:43   #8
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto_Maltese View Post
My girlfriend and I are looking to order a new boat under 24m (78') on which we would spend the next 5-6 years cursing around the globe.

Money is not an issue. Considerations are: safety, ease of handling, performance/speed, looks (interior and decks) and comfort. Most of the time it would be two of us + dog. Occasionally we would have visits from friends and family. Additionally, we plan to hire 2 additional crew members for longer cross ocean passages.

We narrowed down to these three:
  • Nautor's Swan 78
  • Hanse 675
  • Oyster 675 / Oyster 745

From all 3, Hanse has the best looks, but I have read lot of issues from owners who bought a new boat. Personally I do not have experience with Hanse.
Oyster - proven as a good bluewater
Swan - my favorite, great performance and sleek likes (which might be ruined a bit after equipping the boat for long cruises - solar/wind generators..etc)

Experience, pro/cons? All 3 are great boats when it comes to safety and ease of handling. In the meantime we plan to charter boars from all 3 builders.

Thanks!
These boats are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. Before even starting to make a decision you should charter everything you can find and start to get a feel for what you like. You shouldn't make a multi-million dollar decision like this on the basis of "sleek looks".

If as you say money is not an issue, then immediately scratch off the Hanse. They are astounding value for money, but not vaguely in a league with the others for long distance, long term cruising, which is not what they are made for.

I would also say, in my humble personal opinion, that the Swan is not really the preferable choice for a circumnavigation or other long term, long distance cruising, which is not what it's made for. This is a high performance boat made for high performance sailing in controlled conditions. You stand on top of the flush deck and there is no shelter and nothing to hold on to. It's not the place you would want to be crossing an ocean, even in mild latitudes, and forget anything high. It has extremely complex systems which would make me nervous to be too far away from qualified service. It is not set up for living aboard or long distances and would take a lot of work to properly equip.


The Oyster is a no-brainer, in my opinion, from among these three. This is a top quality cruising boat which is really intended for comfortable long distance cruising, and strong enough to take whatever conditions you'll encounter anywhere. Order it with the optional crew quarters, because you'll want to have one (at least) professional crewman to keep up with all the work of maintaining all those systems and doing all the chores which would otherwise keep you too busy to enjoy much else.


The Oyster is also not what I, personally would choose for that kind of sailing, but it's by far the best choice from among the three you presented.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:36   #9
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

What a out a Passport 585 or 615. Little bit smaller but beautiful boats. Anyone have any insight or dirty secrets about them?
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:40   #10
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

Quote:
Sandero: You are asking people on this forum, who don't sail boats of that size for recommendations?
In fact I worked on two of the boats mentioned (and with some thousands people on CF chances are high there are more).

Will comment in a PM to the OP ...

Carsten
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:46   #11
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

If price isn't a problem, I would also look at the new Amel 64. The protected helm station is a great idea during bad weather. The luxuries are pretty nice too.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:54   #12
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

I have a Hanse and am building a Swan, both 50+ feet. I also reiterate that this is certainly not the only place you should go to get advice on a boat that large; however, I'll offer a only one observation.

80' is to big for a couple to cruise alone. Yes, with hydraulic in-boom furling, etc. it is possible to sail the world by yourselves; however, in any emergency, you are open to real trouble. I doubt the two of you together could deal with a broken halyard on any sail in a storm. Everything is big and heavy.

All three boats are Category A-Ocean. The Oyster and Swan are a step above in fit and finish, systems installation, and customer support. That said, they are also 3X as costly. The Oyster is a lot beefier than the Swan, the Swan is likely faster on most points of sail.

As others have suggested, talk to some captains that have hands-on experience with these boats.

Good Luck
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Old 26-08-2016, 07:02   #13
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/...ketch-5894207/

Save some money. This is for sale in St. Petersburg, beautiful boat!
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Old 26-08-2016, 09:51   #14
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

Quote:
Originally Posted by SausalitoDave View Post

80' is to big for a couple to cruise alone. Yes, with hydraulic in-boom furling, etc. it is possible to sail the world by yourselves; however, in any emergency, you are open to real trouble. I doubt the two of you together could deal with a broken halyard on any sail in a storm. Everything is big and heavy.


Good Luck
No, 80' is not too big. I circumnavigated with my wife on an 80' German Frers cutter built by PJ. Spectra main full batten with harken cars, simple jiffy reefing. Spectra headsails, and two 3/4 ounce tri radial chutes with carbon fiber poles.
We did have hydraulic sheet winches, halyard winches and furlers on the headsails. everything else was what you would see on a smaller boat. I have laid hove to for a few days in the indian ocean, and a day or to off the Moroccan coast. Had a hell of a breeze of wind in Cook straight and lost the main engine due to hydraulic lock in the Tasman. Dealt with each problem the same as I would have with a smaller boat. 80' is NOT too big.

I had hydraulic inboom furling on a 157' Bruce King ketch and would not have it again, it was nothing but problems. Jiffy (slab) reefing works as well on large boats the same as on smaller boats.

Michael
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:14   #15
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

In order to handle these boats you will be wanting a professional crew of 3 or 4. Does your budget extend that far ?

You do not show any understanding of how physically hard it is to run a 78 footer.
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