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Old 26-08-2016, 10:27   #16
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

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Originally Posted by Corto_Maltese View Post
My girlfriend and I are looking to order a new boat under 24m (78') on which we would spend the next 5-6 years cursing around the globe.
best auto-correct of the day.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:32   #17
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Re: bluewater - hanse / swan / oyster

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In order to handle these boats you will be wanting a professional crew of 3 or 4. Does your budget extend that far ?

You do not show any understanding of how physically hard it is to run a 78 footer.
Extra crew of 3-4 for an Oyster 72 would be ridiculous, even for the Swan. We see couples all the time cruising just fine only the two of them and maybe one helper at times. Most of the professional charter crews are only two people, usually a man and a woman. Just check out the Oyster Charter fleet specs if you don't believe me.

I was just anchored for three days next to a Swan 70 or larger in Croatia two days ago. The weather was nasty the second morning blowing 40 knots due to thunderstorms, and the two middle aged people on board (crew or owners) had no trouble at all managing the boat. Just like the Swan couple, we had to get up early and move the boat six miles to a more sheltered spot due to the unexpected thunderstorms. We didn't have problems and neither did they..... it was the two 41ft charter boats who followed us over who were in difficulty for over two hours trying to get their undersized crappy Danforth anchors to set and hold. Both of the charter boats got knocked several times over on their side because of gusts even though they didn't have any sails up. The Swan and us just motored over and dropped our anchors... no problems.
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Old 26-08-2016, 10:51   #18
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

CNB 76 - unlimited budget, I'll take a 0.1% commission
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Old 26-08-2016, 11:12   #19
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

Here's a great example: Oyster 725 charter crew two people, the boat is set up to be handled by two people... one man, one woman.

Oyster 725 - Spirit of Phantom - Oyster Yachts
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Old 26-08-2016, 13:18   #20
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

Since you're looking at building your boat from the keel up, & you're planning on working with a manufacturer who does work ranging from stock boats, to fully custom ones, you'll be the one with the biggest hand in a lot of the equipment, systems, & layouts. Including of the gear for handling her under sail, power, & mooring. And what you choose, & how things are laid out, directly impacts several of your key criteria. So that you, & whoever assists you in configuring things, will be the ones determining how easy her sails & other systems are to handle. Ditto on her safety, comfort, etc.

Building a boat, let alone a big custom one, takes a lot of time in planning, energy, & depth of knowledge of systems, layouts, gear types, etc. So because of this, most people hire project managers to assist them with such a project. With it usually being best if the project manager/skipper is brought in on things prior to choosing a manufacturer, boat size, etc. As he'll have a good bit of the requisite knowledge about most of what goes into such a boat. As well as a lot of contracts in the industry, from having done lots of projects before. All of which are invaluable.

The other thing is that they'll work with you in order to determine what boat size, type, type of rig, etc. Suits you best. Along with all of the other interconnected systems & design features.
There are also a lot of other industry professionals who have similar expertise & experience. For example, delivery skippers, & big boat captains, who also care for the boats full time.

I’ve done much of the above, skippering big boats, caring for them (& the owners), & racing a lot of boats up to that size. So I’m pretty familiar with what goes into them, & what their handling & upkeep requires. And were I to have your “misfortune” of a no limits budget. Based on what you’re stating that you’d like to do in terms of sailing. Unless high latitudes cruising was being planned, I’d pick out a nice 12m-14m semi-custom or custom catamaran.
You get more room than some houses, the comfort of sailing flat, easier boarding from a dinghy or the water, & plenty of space on deck for lounging when at anchor.

Regardless of boat type though, it’d be wise to have a project manager. That way you’ll have someone to help you with designing the boat & her systems. Who also will keep track of all of the “little things”, which combine to make a great boat. And who’ll handle most of the interfacing with all of the marine tradesmen & equipment manufacturers.It’s a big job, one that’s sometimes more than full time.

Much of the above information & ideas are covered in the Dashew’s books, with lots of examples as to how various decisions were made. And despite the age of the books, much of the information is still pretty current.Including what they put into their personal big boats, & why.You can download the books, gratis, at their website www.SetSail.com
Beth Leonard & Evans Starzinger’s website & publications are excellent as well. At www.BethandEvans.com

Good luck
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Old 26-08-2016, 13:44   #21
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pirate Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

You should also seriously consider these guys.. Jongert sailing yachts, quality, reliability, comfort and performance - Jongert | Luxury sailing and motor yachts built in Holland
A friend of mine had a custom built 60ftr... managed it with just his wife easily.. also no draft problem with a hydraulic lifting keel
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Old 26-08-2016, 14:30   #22
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

Corto Maltese,

With a vessel that size, it generally helps the owner to have crew quarters, you may choose to have a full time engineer/ general dogsbody on it to look after the systems, and the drudge work.

I think you'll find that capt. mike m, and his good lady are exceptionally well trained, experienced sea going people, with greater than usual qualifications for people in the somewhat rarified atmosphere of 78 footers. It could turn out to be a big mistake to think "if he can do it, I can." Maybe so, but first find out their quals before you convince yourself that you and your gf can do all they did.

In the custom boat field, there are other builders to consider, as well. Bestevaer come to mind. Although it is a much smaller boat, the yard seems to have a good handle on all the engineering and production issues for their boats. Check out the Bestevaer 49 thread.

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Old 26-08-2016, 14:56   #23
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

In my book:

1) Swan,
2) Oyster,
...
...
...
X) Hanse

Swan is by far the best built and best sailing boat. Oyster is OK but not quite as sleek. I think, in very broad terms, Swan shows more of the sailing pedigree while Oysters caters better for the cruising end of the spectrum.

Now Hanse is NOWHERE close to a Swan or an Oyster.

This much said, you should always buy and sail a boat that YOU (and your life partner) like best. One that will make you feel a happy owner every time you look at her.

Go for what your heart desires, not for what other people think.

BTW If you opt for the Swan and if you need a boat manager/delivery skipper, I am willing to jump ships any time past late spring 2017!

Cheers,
b.
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Old 26-08-2016, 15:15   #24
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post

(...)

In the custom boat field, there are other builders to consider, as well. Bestevaer come to mind. Although it is a much smaller boat, the yard seems to have a good handle on all the engineering and production issues for their boats. Check out the Bestevaer 49 thread.

Ann
Yes.

+ some extra info:

Beste (by Dykstra) is only one of more types of luxury yachts boats built by K&M.

There are boats at K&M that the OP may like and that meet their size criterion: Axonite and Opus come to mind:

Axonite / KM Yachtbuilders

However. K&M are custom builds to designs by top Dutch designers and as such may be seen by some as a notch above Swan.

By any measure, well worth having a long good look.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 26-08-2016, 17:55   #25
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

oh and get one with a heli pad....christ
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Old 26-08-2016, 22:35   #26
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

I have Swan 57RS, 59 feet. I think our boat is really getting to max size for short hand sailing. I feel very comfortable doing anything but furling in the main into the boom by myself. Our yacht draws only 2.4m and overall feels manageable. There are lot of people who say can't sail 40 footer solo...... so I am not going to say that to you, rather say good luck and go for it. The deep keel is rather an issue for cruising. 3,5-4.0m is too much for most cruising destinations. Overall....to live your life on 78foot Swan....... dream come true
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Old 26-08-2016, 23:51   #27
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

If you visit Swan, and money is not an issue, visit also their neighbour Baltic Yachts. (http://www.balticyachts.fi)
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Old 27-08-2016, 05:13   #28
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

I'd look at the Hylas 70.
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Old 27-08-2016, 06:11   #29
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

Helipads are not very common with sailing yachts. The rigging of the yacht is a danger to the heli.

Maybe this will change now with HCDs.

b.
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Old 28-08-2016, 03:15   #30
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Re: Bluewater - Hanse / Swan / Oyster

Did you have a good look at the Tayana's???? Its worth your time!
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