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Old 02-12-2012, 11:58   #736
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I'll have a few chats when I'm in Dusseldorf next year. However my impression is that many, if not most large Bavarias start their lives as charter yachts, and then later get sold second hand to private owners. A fifth of the Bavarias currently listed on Yachtworld are in Croatia...

It's basically an observation. The private yachts in general seem to be a lot older on average than the charter fleet.
This argument is somewhat irreverent. , but if you look at the four big production builders the numbers they produce dwarf the charter fleets. Secondly look at the profusion of models many which never make it into charter fleets in any numbers at all ( try finding jeaneauu DS in charter or the bigger Beneteaus. Or the match series. Try finding lots of Hanses in charter

Furthermore the charter versions are often modified interiors ( more cabin or more heads ) whereas if you see actual yachts in marinas they are private versions.

Furthermore many yachts in charter are not owned by the charter companies , so they are not put on the 2nd hand market. They are actually returned to the investor/owner

Many boats that are in Croatia are not in charter , its s big VAT dodge area for Europeans, Hence the marinas are stuffed to the gills with private yachts.

It's often sneered at that company's produce charter versions as if means an inferior boat. On my view its means a superior production boat as the basic vessel had to be strong and capable.

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Old 02-12-2012, 12:22   #737
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I am sure the numbers vary depending on where you cruise.
In the Eastern med 80% of popular AWB yachts Beneteau, Bavaria etc are charter boats, in charter.
At the tail end of the season most of the AWB yachts are crewed by delivery skippers moving the charter boats.
Out of season it's rare to meet a AWB boat at anchor.

Note: this is boats out sailing. The numbers locked up in the marina will, I suspect be very different.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:27   #738
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Try finding lots of Hanses in charter
That's true. I'd love to charter a Hanse. There are not a lot out there in the Med. I'm happy that a few Elan 350's have made it in to the charter fleets, as that's what I want to charter this year.
However the biggest boat builder in Europe is Bavaria. I don't see a lot of Bavarias out there that aren't in charter.
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Old 02-12-2012, 13:13   #739
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Furthermore the charter versions are often modified interiors ( more cabin or more heads ) whereas if you see actual yachts in marinas they are private versions.
The giveaway is when they come out with an "Owner's Version." In the 45-50' boats, the charter version typically has one or two more cabins than the owner's version. Sometimes, such as with the Beneteau 50, the charter version will have four cabins with four heads.
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Old 02-12-2012, 13:46   #740
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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They also considered heads and auxiliary engines to be needless extravagances on a cruising boat. Such things took up too much space on their little boats.
I agree with them about how a larger boat (but by the same token an excessively small boat is harder on gear than the gear that size was designed for) has more stress on gear and crew. I like there "Go simple, go now" idea.....but I consider auxiliary engines a piece of safety equipment.
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Old 02-12-2012, 13:53   #741
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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The giveaway is when they come out with an "Owner's Version." In the 45-50' boats, the charter version typically has one or two more cabins than the owner's version. Sometimes, such as with the Beneteau 50, the charter version will have four cabins with four heads.
That must really piss off the maid.
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Old 02-12-2012, 15:06   #742
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Quote:
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I don't think the 25 makes the cut. Drawing only 2'11" and with only 1450 lbs of ballast, I don't think it's right for offshore work. It's a heavy boat for such light ballast, which gives it a ballast/displacement ratio below what I'd want in big wind. Despite the salty look, I'd look somewhere else.
Regards to Bayfield 25.
The ballast/displacement ratio of 37% is not good enough for trade wind voyages?
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Old 02-12-2012, 15:38   #743
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

After 50 pages and 742 posts do we have a consensus?
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Old 02-12-2012, 15:46   #744
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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After 50 pages and 742 posts do we have a consensus?
I think so. Paraphrasing Eric Hiscock: Most people go cruising in the boat thay have
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Old 02-12-2012, 16:14   #745
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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After 50 pages and 742 posts do we have a consensus?
The concensus I came up with is the capability of the crew is more important than the that of the boat and even though almost every boat can be effectively taken to sea some are harder or easier on the crew....fatigue (like that from a boat that really would be better in coastal and/or inland cruising) can be very dangerous as well as taking alot of fun out of the voyage. Is your comfort and safety worth it. The sea is mighty indeed and deserves respect.
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Old 02-12-2012, 16:31   #746
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Well, I thought it was about time for my favorite video to remind everyone we are talking about the sea. Make your own judgements about what boat you want to be on. And don't you old folks just miss the 90's. The singer is Hope Sandoval from Mazzy Star (Fade into you):

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Old 02-12-2012, 16:52   #747
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Make your own judgements about what boat you want to be on.
I'd want to be on the race boat, sitting on the rail. They have the option of slowing down for comfort if they choose. Good preparation: clear decks. The poor ketch (4:49). Long overhangs, no rudder authority, slowly wallowing. That there is the ideal that seems to be promoted by many on CF - a heavy cruiser. WTF, is that laundry on the rail? Bad preparation: Looks like they were planning a rummage sale on that cluttered aft deck.
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:01   #748
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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I'd want to be on the race boat, sitting on the rail. They have the option of slowing down for comfort if they choose. Good preparation: clear decks. The poor ketch (4:49). Long overhangs, no rudder authority, slowly wallowing. That there is the ideal that seems to be promoted by many on CF - a heavy cruiser. WTF, is that laundry on the rail? Bad preparation: Looks like they were planning a rummage sale on that cluttered aft deck.
Yeah, I like that racing sailboat also. 60' sled maybe? Whatever, it's an awesome boat, and if you were the engineer that designed that thing, you gotta be proud. The skipper is still pushing the boat hard, and it's handling it totally!

I also like that red workboat. Looks like he is just coming in to that ugly channel after a day's or week's work. (but I would like to know about what rpm he has his diesel engines running at, pretty high I'd reckon)
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:15   #749
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

The racer is looking good but I'd prefer to be on the carrier.
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Old 02-12-2012, 17:33   #750
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

reminds me of why I don't try and get away with a coastal cruiser, why I have a "proper blue water boat"
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