Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 3.00 average. Display Modes
Old 29-11-2012, 16:37   #661
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballenxj
AH, So after all these pages & posts, we finally come to the true definition.
Bluewater Boat is just a term made up on some AD designer's notebook for an AD campaign? So disappointing.
-Bruce
We didnt come to this conclusion now we came to it years and years ago, we just rehash the same argument over and over again and this thread has wandered its own path and allowed the people new to the conversation to come to the same old conclusion. All of the participants to this thread will now be part of another thread later this year or years down the road that meanders along the same lines...

...who am i fooling we wont really come to a conclusion we will just get bored for awhile and this thread will eventually, hopefully, die since there is no new information beign added just what is alredy here being discusswd to death...
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 16:42   #662
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: British Columbia, Mexico
Boat: S&S Hughes 38
Posts: 837
Images: 23
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Just because you can go "Bluewater" in almost anything,doesn't mean you would want to.It all depends on the level of discomfort you are willing to put up with.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hungarian circumnavigator.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	46.8 KB
ID:	50454  
highseas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 17:00   #663
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 290
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
We didnt come to this conclusion now we came to it years and years ago, we just rehash the same argument over and over again and this thread has wandered its own path and allowed the people new to the conversation to come to the same old conclusion. All of the participants to this thread will now be part of another thread later this year or years down the road that meanders along the same lines...

...who am i fooling we wont really come to a conclusion we will just get bored for awhile and this thread will eventually, hopefully, die since there is no new information beign added just what is alredy here being discusswd to death...
That's what happened to me. I first thought this was a great thread, then I became bored with all the arguing back and forth.
I must now go find a MacGreggor 26 and prepare for my Bluewater journey that lays ahead.
-Bruce
__________________

Ballenxj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 17:01   #664
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Sabre 28-2
Posts: 3,197
Images: 37
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Almost any boat can take a lot more than almost any crew can take. Remember, the vast majority of boats that do sink or founder for some reason do so close to shore or at the dock. The odds of losing a boat offshore are vanishingly small, almost no matter which one you choose. Use a modicum of common sense and you won't have any problems.
Of course then, the odds of a boat being offshore are vanishingly small. Think of the number of sailboats in the U.S., then the number that even do coastal hops. Now, the number that actually cross oceans. So, of course, most are going to be lost at the dock.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: https://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 17:33   #665
Registered User
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
if i remember well, after 6 years as the captain of Angantyr , a Abeking Rasmussen 61 made in steel in Germany , we found ourselves with our asses in real bad conditions wonder how diferent can be the same situation in a gelcoat shine thing .....
Had somewhat the same thing happen to me.. couple years ago on our way down the west coast from Kodiac we picked up a weather fax showing the pacific high was breaking down..
Put up all the rags and trimmed her in tight.. For more than 12 hours we had our First 42 running in the "teens".. Made it to Fort Bragg befor they closed the bar and shut down the enterance..
shortly after, we heard the weather report of 17 foot seas every 13 seconds..
and as we were tucked away in a safe harbor, and sipping on tomato soup and fresh baked biscuits, I started wondering how those still out in that crap on the rocky coast were doing..
I'm not saying that everybody should be sailing a Fast boat, Just like cars, some drive a Porsche, and some like to drive an old ford truck..
And safety is what you make of it.. If you think you will get caught out in the big blue crap and need a steel boat, well thats your choice..
As I said, Your Choice............
Randyonr3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 17:46   #666
Eternal Member
 
wolfenzee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (NW corner of Puget Sound)
Boat: 30' William Atkin cutter
Posts: 1,496
Send a message via ICQ to wolfenzee
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by highseas View Post
Just because you can go "Bluewater" in almost anything,doesn't mean you would want to.It all depends on the level of discomfort you are willing to put up with.
Just because a boat is "technically" capable of going to sea doesn't mean it is a good idea to do so, unless of course you feel the need to prove something to yourself, because any pain, suffering, discomfort and life endangerment isn't going to give you enough of an ego trip to be worth it.
I did run into someone who was intentionally using a boat designed for inland sailing in a place and time of year where/when people avoided traveling in the biggest of boats....he almost killed himself once, but is still at it, to prove something which no one else seems interested in.
__________________
"It is better to die living than live dieing" (Tolstoy para-phrased by Jimmy Buffet)
"Those who think they know everything piss off those of us who do"
wolfenzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 18:06   #667
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: British Columbia, Mexico
Boat: S&S Hughes 38
Posts: 837
Images: 23
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Some people wouldn't go to sea in a cruiseship.Its all about choices,we make them everyday.Driving down the freeway is a more likely way to do harm to oneself,or other innocents nearby.As long as you have "insurance",it's okay.
highseas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 18:20   #668
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: O'Day 28
Posts: 3,920
pirate Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
... Since there is no exact definition of bluewater then there is no exact answer. That term is thrown around quite loosely and seems to mean different things to different people.
... I would not take a Catalina 30 around Cape Horn in the winter

This quote is from post #2 in this thread, all those many words ago. Forget bluewater and sailing skill, and even luck. What if the cruising capability standard were: Would the boat have a chance of rounding Cape Horn in the winter?

Too extreme? How about reasonably capable of sailing RTW in the roaring forties?

This standard eliminates pretty much all the smaller stuff. It's not a perfect standard but better than "bluewater", I think. So to answer the OP,
NO.
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 18:29   #669
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
This quote is from post #2 in this thread, all those many words ago. Forget bluewater and sailing skill, and even luck. What if the cruising capability standard were: Would the boat have a chance of rounding Cape Horn in the winter?

Too extreme? How about reasonably capable of sailing RTW in the roaring forties?

This standard eliminates pretty much all the smaller stuff. It's not a perfect standard but better than "bluewater", I think. So to answer the OP,
NO.
Interesting. This might actually be a better rating system, to evaluate a boat by how high it can prudently be sailed. Latitude 50+ers would be more bombproof than Latitude 40+ers, which would be less tender than Latitude 30+ers.....

Sheesh. We could get this thread up to a thousand posts! Think of the carnage when someone suggests that nothing under 40' LWL could possibly rate as a 40+er!
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 18:39   #670
Registered User
 
Mr B's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 2,912
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I am at 39 but wont go below 42, thats the bottom of Tasmania, It not good down past there in any boat,
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 18:52   #671
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: British Columbia, Mexico
Boat: S&S Hughes 38
Posts: 837
Images: 23
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

To me,bluewater means something you could sail the coconut run,not Cape Horn.That's a high latitude boat,and a completely different style of sailing.
highseas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 19:06   #672
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

The Titanic's people only claimed it was VIRTUALLY unsinkable. Unfortunately, the iceberg was real.

So, after all this talk, what would be on your "bluewater" list? I claim no expertise but here's a crude strawman with which to start:

for the crew:
seakindliness, motion comfort, secure sea and port berths; secure, organized, and very adequate stowage; hand holds above and below, protection of steering area, ability to move securely below decks and top sides, ventilation, environmental comfort, good anchoring points on deck and in cockpit, ability to rig jacklines properly, boom prevention, crew and back-up crew physically and ergonomically able to perform all tasks on board...

performance, accident reduction:
speed, solid construction and design, ability to easily balance sailplan, ability to move well in different wind strengths and conditions, ability to steer easily without getting squirrelly and without too much fatigue and without going out of control easily in bad conditions, ability to hove to or come to a "resting" position, ability to secure the boat well, good anchor set-up, limited windage or ability to reduce it, clean fuel, ability to easily inspect and service mechanical systems, proper through-hulls serviced and checked, steering inspected and well adequate, back up for tiller pilot/autohelm, deck fills properly gasketed and vented, lifelines inspected

damage control:
hull toughness, compartmentation/collision bow, ability to jury rig, ability to shelter crew, heavy items all well secured, protection from downflooding in extreme conditions, emergency communications set-up, accessible and deployable raft mounting, crew recovery set-up, plugs and patches set up, emergency steering previously tested, etc.
__________________
Pat, from the Desert Sea https://desertsea.blogspot.com
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 19:49   #673
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
The Titanic's people only claimed it was VIRTUALLY unsinkable.
That is being disputed by historians of the accident.

Here's a quick overview: Titanic - Unsinkable
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 21:02   #674
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,324
Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Interesting. This might actually be a better rating system, to evaluate a boat by how high it can prudently be sailed. Latitude 50+ers would be more bombproof than Latitude 40+ers, which would be less tender than Latitude 30+ers.....

Sheesh. We could get this thread up to a thousand posts! Think of the carnage when someone suggests that nothing under 40' LWL could possibly rate as a 40+er!
My first experience sailing at sea was in a Vaurien, and that was at Latitude 51...
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2012, 23:26   #675
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 35
Images: 4
Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
OK, I give up. All you people who say "It's not the boat" are of course free to circumnavigate in a bathtub using the shower curtain as a sail if you like. I will continue to believe that both the skipper, and the boat are factors in the likely success of a voyage. But I'm done arguing the point. Have fun!
Don't give up.
I have read lots of these and other posts, you can agree with them or not. That's not the point.
But you and others are right. It's the boat and the skipper. (IMHO)
Remember the weakest link in the chain.

In short: i would buy the best boat i can afford, keep it up to date, and do as much as i can to improve my skills, te learn, to read, etc.

Taco.
Voyager269 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising and the Coming Storm ~ Recession, Depression, Climate Change, Peak Oil jtbsail Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 162 13-10-2015 12:17
Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ? elliebell General Sailing Forum 274 16-11-2014 17:11
For Sale: VHFs, Offshore Medical Kit, Cruising Guides, Chart Cards, etc. svdreamkeeper Classifieds Archive 0 04-12-2011 17:10
For Sale: Cruising Guides and Sailing Resource Books svdreamkeeper Classifieds Archive 3 23-11-2011 11:24

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.