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Old 29-11-2012, 17:37   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballenxj
AH, So after all these pages & posts, we finally come to the true definition.
Bluewater Boat is just a term made up on some AD designer's notebook for an AD campaign? So disappointing.
-Bruce
We didnt come to this conclusion now we came to it years and years ago, we just rehash the same argument over and over again and this thread has wandered its own path and allowed the people new to the conversation to come to the same old conclusion. All of the participants to this thread will now be part of another thread later this year or years down the road that meanders along the same lines...

...who am i fooling we wont really come to a conclusion we will just get bored for awhile and this thread will eventually, hopefully, die since there is no new information beign added just what is alredy here being discusswd to death...
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Old 29-11-2012, 17:42   #662
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Just because you can go "Bluewater" in almost anything,doesn't mean you would want to.It all depends on the level of discomfort you are willing to put up with.
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Old 29-11-2012, 18:00   #663
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
We didnt come to this conclusion now we came to it years and years ago, we just rehash the same argument over and over again and this thread has wandered its own path and allowed the people new to the conversation to come to the same old conclusion. All of the participants to this thread will now be part of another thread later this year or years down the road that meanders along the same lines...

...who am i fooling we wont really come to a conclusion we will just get bored for awhile and this thread will eventually, hopefully, die since there is no new information beign added just what is alredy here being discusswd to death...
That's what happened to me. I first thought this was a great thread, then I became bored with all the arguing back and forth.
I must now go find a MacGreggor 26 and prepare for my Bluewater journey that lays ahead.
-Bruce
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Old 29-11-2012, 18:01   #664
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Almost any boat can take a lot more than almost any crew can take. Remember, the vast majority of boats that do sink or founder for some reason do so close to shore or at the dock. The odds of losing a boat offshore are vanishingly small, almost no matter which one you choose. Use a modicum of common sense and you won't have any problems.
Of course then, the odds of a boat being offshore are vanishingly small. Think of the number of sailboats in the U.S., then the number that even do coastal hops. Now, the number that actually cross oceans. So, of course, most are going to be lost at the dock.
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Old 29-11-2012, 18:33   #665
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
if i remember well, after 6 years as the captain of Angantyr , a Abeking Rasmussen 61 made in steel in Germany , we found ourselves with our asses in real bad conditions wonder how diferent can be the same situation in a gelcoat shine thing .....
Had somewhat the same thing happen to me.. couple years ago on our way down the west coast from Kodiac we picked up a weather fax showing the pacific high was breaking down..
Put up all the rags and trimmed her in tight.. For more than 12 hours we had our First 42 running in the "teens".. Made it to Fort Bragg befor they closed the bar and shut down the enterance..
shortly after, we heard the weather report of 17 foot seas every 13 seconds..
and as we were tucked away in a safe harbor, and sipping on tomato soup and fresh baked biscuits, I started wondering how those still out in that crap on the rocky coast were doing..
I'm not saying that everybody should be sailing a Fast boat, Just like cars, some drive a Porsche, and some like to drive an old ford truck..
And safety is what you make of it.. If you think you will get caught out in the big blue crap and need a steel boat, well thats your choice..
As I said, Your Choice............
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Old 29-11-2012, 18:46   #666
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by highseas View Post
Just because you can go "Bluewater" in almost anything,doesn't mean you would want to.It all depends on the level of discomfort you are willing to put up with.
Just because a boat is "technically" capable of going to sea doesn't mean it is a good idea to do so, unless of course you feel the need to prove something to yourself, because any pain, suffering, discomfort and life endangerment isn't going to give you enough of an ego trip to be worth it.
I did run into someone who was intentionally using a boat designed for inland sailing in a place and time of year where/when people avoided traveling in the biggest of boats....he almost killed himself once, but is still at it, to prove something which no one else seems interested in.
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Old 29-11-2012, 19:06   #667
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Some people wouldn't go to sea in a cruiseship.Its all about choices,we make them everyday.Driving down the freeway is a more likely way to do harm to oneself,or other innocents nearby.As long as you have "insurance",it's okay.
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Old 29-11-2012, 19:20   #668
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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
... Since there is no exact definition of bluewater then there is no exact answer. That term is thrown around quite loosely and seems to mean different things to different people.
... I would not take a Catalina 30 around Cape Horn in the winter

This quote is from post #2 in this thread, all those many words ago. Forget bluewater and sailing skill, and even luck. What if the cruising capability standard were: Would the boat have a chance of rounding Cape Horn in the winter?

Too extreme? How about reasonably capable of sailing RTW in the roaring forties?

This standard eliminates pretty much all the smaller stuff. It's not a perfect standard but better than "bluewater", I think. So to answer the OP,
NO.
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Old 29-11-2012, 19:29   #669
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
This quote is from post #2 in this thread, all those many words ago. Forget bluewater and sailing skill, and even luck. What if the cruising capability standard were: Would the boat have a chance of rounding Cape Horn in the winter?

Too extreme? How about reasonably capable of sailing RTW in the roaring forties?

This standard eliminates pretty much all the smaller stuff. It's not a perfect standard but better than "bluewater", I think. So to answer the OP,
NO.
Interesting. This might actually be a better rating system, to evaluate a boat by how high it can prudently be sailed. Latitude 50+ers would be more bombproof than Latitude 40+ers, which would be less tender than Latitude 30+ers.....

Sheesh. We could get this thread up to a thousand posts! Think of the carnage when someone suggests that nothing under 40' LWL could possibly rate as a 40+er!
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Old 29-11-2012, 19:39   #670
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I am at 39 but wont go below 42, thats the bottom of Tasmania, It not good down past there in any boat,
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Old 29-11-2012, 19:52   #671
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

To me,bluewater means something you could sail the coconut run,not Cape Horn.That's a high latitude boat,and a completely different style of sailing.
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Old 29-11-2012, 20:06   #672
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

The Titanic's people only claimed it was VIRTUALLY unsinkable. Unfortunately, the iceberg was real.

So, after all this talk, what would be on your "bluewater" list? I claim no expertise but here's a crude strawman with which to start:

for the crew:
seakindliness, motion comfort, secure sea and port berths; secure, organized, and very adequate stowage; hand holds above and below, protection of steering area, ability to move securely below decks and top sides, ventilation, environmental comfort, good anchoring points on deck and in cockpit, ability to rig jacklines properly, boom prevention, crew and back-up crew physically and ergonomically able to perform all tasks on board...

performance, accident reduction:
speed, solid construction and design, ability to easily balance sailplan, ability to move well in different wind strengths and conditions, ability to steer easily without getting squirrelly and without too much fatigue and without going out of control easily in bad conditions, ability to hove to or come to a "resting" position, ability to secure the boat well, good anchor set-up, limited windage or ability to reduce it, clean fuel, ability to easily inspect and service mechanical systems, proper through-hulls serviced and checked, steering inspected and well adequate, back up for tiller pilot/autohelm, deck fills properly gasketed and vented, lifelines inspected

damage control:
hull toughness, compartmentation/collision bow, ability to jury rig, ability to shelter crew, heavy items all well secured, protection from downflooding in extreme conditions, emergency communications set-up, accessible and deployable raft mounting, crew recovery set-up, plugs and patches set up, emergency steering previously tested, etc.
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Old 29-11-2012, 20:49   #673
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
The Titanic's people only claimed it was VIRTUALLY unsinkable.
That is being disputed by historians of the accident.

Here's a quick overview: Titanic - Unsinkable
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Old 29-11-2012, 22:02   #674
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Cabability

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Interesting. This might actually be a better rating system, to evaluate a boat by how high it can prudently be sailed. Latitude 50+ers would be more bombproof than Latitude 40+ers, which would be less tender than Latitude 30+ers.....

Sheesh. We could get this thread up to a thousand posts! Think of the carnage when someone suggests that nothing under 40' LWL could possibly rate as a 40+er!
My first experience sailing at sea was in a Vaurien, and that was at Latitude 51...
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Old 30-11-2012, 00:26   #675
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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OK, I give up. All you people who say "It's not the boat" are of course free to circumnavigate in a bathtub using the shower curtain as a sail if you like. I will continue to believe that both the skipper, and the boat are factors in the likely success of a voyage. But I'm done arguing the point. Have fun!
Don't give up.
I have read lots of these and other posts, you can agree with them or not. That's not the point.
But you and others are right. It's the boat and the skipper. (IMHO)
Remember the weakest link in the chain.

In short: i would buy the best boat i can afford, keep it up to date, and do as much as i can to improve my skills, te learn, to read, etc.

Taco.
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