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Old 22-11-2012, 10:02   #481
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Originally Posted by engele
Every "Heavy Displacement" cruiser I can think of has opening ports. The Hans Christian 50' down the dock has them, the forty something foot Westsail next to us at the last marina had them, Swans, Hinkleys, and Morris have them. What boat doesn't have opening ports, displacement aside?



Here's a blue water boat with fixed ports. This is a Guppy 13.
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Old 22-11-2012, 10:10   #482
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I don't think that was the point. The point is ... that if the boat becomes overwhelmed by the elements and suffers a structural failure independently of or in spite of the captains best efforts then even the worlds best sailors are in trouble.

I think we can all agree that there have been incidents where even the best sailors have not come home.

Absolutely agree, In some of the best built and prepared boats I am sure as well. I am sorry to you and VT if I wasn't clear in my post.

My whole arguement is that it's not just the boat, not just the sailor but a combination of both and to some degree a stroke of luck. I have a boat VT loves...a full keel thick hulled boat. So I agree with some of what he says. However, After spending 10yrs at sea and seeing many various types designs and material boats all over the world. I believe just about any well maintained boat will got just about anywhere. That being the case crew and luck are now what I focus on. Since I am told we make our own luck I am trying to prepare myself and my boat for what I think will get me from A to B safely. Other may or may not agree. I scan these forums and post where I think I can add valuable knowledge that may help others. I dont get on here and tote that my alberg and its full keel is the only boat worthy of going to sea because we all know its not and was never designed for that.

I love debating, it leads to new thoughts and ideas, all good things. When I do post I try to present information that is factual and can be supported with facts.
I am going to leave this thread for you all to hash out. I am going to work and continue to sharpen my skills....which are pretty blunt.

Have a happy thanksgiving all
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Old 22-11-2012, 10:13   #483
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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thank you, for posting your thoughts on the idea. And thank you for stating that your not an engineer. There are others who claim to be an engineer who do not support their claim or claims with any creditable evidence of "under built" or "Overbuilt" boat building.

I could really care less about the bluewater deal. I have my Alberg 30 and am happy with my choice. Will she be everything to everybody, nope, but she fits me quite well. I just hate how others come on here and bash brands, makes and certain models of boats when they know less than they lead on. That lack of and misleading knowledge will steer someone from an otherwise great boat.....sad.
YaaaaaWnnn........I'm on the verge if being banned (do I hear applause?). So that's all you'll get. Actually, that's all your comment is worth.

RT
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Old 22-11-2012, 10:16   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcapo

YaaaaaWnnn........I'm on the verge if being banned (do I hear applause?). So that's all you'll get. Actually, that's all your comment is worth.

RT
This is not much of a contribution to the thread vtcapo

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Old 22-11-2012, 10:36   #485
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
YaaaaaWnnn........I'm on the verge if being banned (do I hear applause?). So that's all you'll get. Actually, that's all your comment is worth.

RT

you need to relax, have beer and wash the sand out of your private parts...whatever it takes.
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Old 22-11-2012, 10:52   #486
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by Cruiser2B View Post
However, After spending 10yrs at sea and seeing many various types designs and material boats all over the world. I believe just about any well maintained boat will got just about anywhere.
What just popped in to my mind is the following: A chain is as strong as it weakest link. The boat rarely is the weakest link. Making an already strong link in your chain even stronger doesn't make the whole chain any stronger...
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Old 22-11-2012, 10:57   #487
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
What just popped in to my mind is the following: A chain is as strong as it weakest link. The boat rarely is the weakest link. Making an already strong link in your chain even stronger doesn't make the whole chain any stronger...

yes, I agree. Did I post something that would lead you to believe otherwise? If so I am sorry.
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Old 22-11-2012, 10:57   #488
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Originally Posted by K_V_B

What just popped in to my mind is the following: A chain is as strong as it weakest link. The boat rarely is the weakest link. Making an already strong link in your chain even stronger doesn't make the whole chain any stronger...
+1 Excellent point!
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Old 22-11-2012, 11:05   #489
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
Why then are so many new developments from the aerospace industry than still frowned upon when it comes to building boats? Why is it OK to glue aluminium when you are building a plane, but not when building a boat?
I belive the Moni motorgliders early days as an airplane that was glued along the ribs is very good reason not to build an airplane with glue only,later versions were glued and riveted so as to prevent them "looking like a sandwhich coming apart " while flying thru the air..Flying thru the air does very little damage to an airplanes frame,whereas I would think that moving thru water would be a lot different than moving thru air...
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Old 22-11-2012, 18:45   #490
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by EBB3 View Post
Has anyone on here sailed a Catalina offshore or on extended blue water cruises? Or does anyone know Catalina's capability to sail across oceans? Because I've seen some comments on CF saying they cant
Doesn't the original question posed have anything to do with the intentions of the builder ?

I note that only a couple of Catalina's have been manufactured with the IMCI "Category A" rating and some of the 30 footers ( e.g. 315 ) are not rated at all

IMCI - International Marine Certification Institute - Manufactures

Wouldn't that rating be a reasonable start-point for assessing "blue-water" capability ?

In other words if the builder rates the boat as not suitable for open ocean travel, that's a pretty good clue that its not really suitable

Similarly, if the particular model is not rated at all - that's probably also an indicator of suitability

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Old 22-11-2012, 22:04   #491
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I doubt more than a few of the boats out cruising the high seas have any type of certification. Which is fine by me. Most certification, in my opinion, only legalizes a standard of *minimum* quality. No thanks. For example: Building codes legalize crummy housing, UL and CSA seals on completely cheezy electrical gear...etc.

Also in my opinion, Catalinas are not designed with ocean cruising in mind, but coastal sailing. But again many boats out cruising were no so intended either. The Calalina yachts I have been on seemed plenty capable. Stout. I wouldn't be concerned about a Catalina falling apart in bad conditions.
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Old 22-11-2012, 22:08   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle
I doubt more than a few of the boats out cruising the high seas have any type of certification. Which is fine by me. Most certification, in my opinion, only legalizes a standard of *minimum* quality. No thanks. For example: Building codes legalize crummy housing, UL and CSA seals on completely cheezy electrical gear...etc.

Also in my opinion, Catalinas are not designed with ocean cruising in mind, but coastal sailing. But again many boats out cruising were no so intended either. The Calalina yachts I have been on seemed plenty capable. Stout. I wouldn't be concerned about a Catalina falling apart in bad conditions.
You've obviously not spent much time in places like Thailand with little or no building codes and seen what kind of construction you get.
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Old 23-11-2012, 01:22   #493
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by Cruiser2B View Post
yes, I agree. Did I post something that would lead you to believe otherwise? If so I am sorry.
No you didn't. I'm sorry if you interpreted my post as a rebuttal. It wasn't.
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Old 23-11-2012, 15:27   #494
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Originally Posted by engele
Every "Heavy Displacement" cruiser I can think of has opening ports. The Hans Christian 50' down the dock has them, the forty something foot Westsail next to us at the last marina had them, Swans, Hinkleys, and Morris have them. What boat doesn't have opening ports, displacement aside?



Here's a blue water boat with fixed ports. This is a Guppy 13.
My boat was designed by William Atkin in 1936 to be an "ocean cruiser" it does not have opening ports, it has "dead lights" 1/4" through bolted plexiglass 4"x10" ovals and one 4" round....never leaked in 4 years. I did acquire a set of Perko opening ports which I plan to install. In warmer climes you want as much ventilation as possible.
If properly installed a dead light is far less likely to leak than an opening port....properly installed bedding compound fastened down with closely spaced screws provides a much more water tight seal than a gasket securely with a hinge on one side and dogs on the other. I don't know how someone could think otherwise.
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Old 23-11-2012, 15:43   #495
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I'm glad I found this thread. I'm one of those noobs who just finished my first season taking lessons and practicing mostly on 22-footer club boats. I'm now trying to decide if a boat like a 315 will be a good next step for my goals of more time on the water, getting to know the boat well and eventually cruising to tropical climes. My plans are to start with more cruising around Puget Sound on my own boat for the next few seasons then eventually head down to cruise the sea of cortez, do the coconut milk run, then head back to Seattle via HI (all during good weather windows of course).

In my mind, the attraction of the 315 and similar boats seems to be the bang for the buck, plus the comfort during the phases when I'll be in the sound, cruising in the sea of cortez, and island hopping the polynesians. The risks seems to be the run from Seattle down south and of course the pacific crossings from west coast and back.

From what one side is saying, this is very doable with proper planning and if one is unlucky enough to meet unpredicted bad weather, would still not be the end if the boat has a competent skipper:
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcapo
It is a known fact that run of the mill production boats characteristically do not behave as well as the tried and true older designs at sea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor
Again this is only a half truth. WIth the proper uses of drag devices and seamanship in many cases where you are sitting hove, a production boat may still be able to make way towards its given destination. This is where I had to rewind and agree with you on the fact that a noob would be better off on a boat that requires less experience to sail safely in heavy weather.
If it is not too much of an ask, it would be really helpful to a noob like me in weighing the statements if the proponents can also add their own personal bluewater/rtw experiences and typical cruising grounds, from where their advices are coming from.

This post sounds reassuring:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamel View Post
Having just sailed my 2003 Catalina 42 from California across the Pacific to Bundaberg, Queensland I would tend to disagree with Cheechako.
I find the boat to be comfortable,stiff, fast and capable in weather....40 kt gale, 24hrs, beam reaching doing 8kts....good enough for me!
It would be good to hear from the go-heavy side - especially from vtcapo as he seems to have very strong opinions on that side - their bluewater or rtw backgrounds if they haven't posted them yet.
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