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Old 18-11-2012, 10:48   #361
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Sometimes lads its better for everyone involved if you address the concerns of the parties who dont share your opinion.

Dismissing the opposition in a debate rarely results in increased knowledge for all those involved.
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Old 18-11-2012, 11:18   #362
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Bluewater boats are those boats that are out there in blue water.

Bluewater sailors or those sailors that sail across bluewater successfully.

A negative response to any theory, proposal or question is always the right answer. That's why progress is so hard.

Can I sail this boat across an ocean?

A1 - No it is totally unsuitable and you will die.
Result 1 - He makes it - It was a fluke. I am still right.
Result 2 - He dies. I was right.

A2 - Yes, sure go ahead.
R1 - He dies. I was wrong
R2 - He makes it. I was right

The negative response is always 100% correct. Apply this to politicians making decisions. You will see why most governments are stuck in the quicksand.
A capable sailor in a capable boat can still die at sea for the same reason an incapable sailor in an incapable boat can survive at sea.
Luck works both ways.


Some boats undoubtedly coastal cruisers and taking them to sea is down right stupid.
In the middle ground are boats which by design are sea capable, but a degree of modification is necessary to be able to hold up to the rigors of the sea.
Some boats are unquestionably designed to handle what the ocean can dish out.
The dividing line between these is vague at best, the capability of the crew is another variable.
I was told by a learned sailor once.
"You can take any boat to sea, it just depends whether you have more balls than brains"
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Old 18-11-2012, 11:32   #363
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post

(...)

A1 - No it is totally unsuitable and you will die.
Result 1 - He makes it - It was a fluke. I am still right.
Result 2 - He dies. I was right.

A2 - Yes, sure go ahead.
R1 - He dies. I was wrong
R2 - He makes it. I was right

(...)
+1!

;-)

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Old 18-11-2012, 11:34   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfenzee
A capable sailor in a capable boat can still die at sea for the same reason an incapable sailor in an incapable boat can survive at sea.
Luck works both ways.
Which is why the "standard" list of debates around here are endless...

A guy with the wrong anchor can hold fast
A guy with a gun can die
A guy with a mono can lose it
A guy with a cat can survive at sea regardless of bridgedeck clearance

yada, yada, yada...
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Old 18-11-2012, 11:46   #365
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
A capable sailor in a capable boat can still die at sea for the same reason an incapable sailor in an incapable boat can survive at sea.
Luck works both ways.


Some boats undoubtedly coastal cruisers and taking them to sea is down right stupid.
In the middle ground are boats which by design are sea capable, but a degree of modification is necessary to be able to hold up to the rigors of the sea.
Some boats are unquestionably designed to handle what the ocean can dish out.
The dividing line between these is vague at best, the capability of the crew is another variable.
I was told by a learned sailor once.
"You can take any boat to sea, it just depends whether you have more balls than brains"
Right on the money....

RT
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Old 18-11-2012, 11:51   #366
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Which is why the "standard" list of debates around here are endless...

A guy with the wrong anchor can hold fast
A guy with a gun can die
A guy with a mono can lose it
A guy with a cat can survive at sea regardless of bridgedeck clearance

yada, yada, yada...
In other words, Murphy doesn't discriminate. I just think in terms of reducing my chance of him showing up in person.

Statistics be damned.

RT
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Old 18-11-2012, 11:56   #367
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

The cure for the spade rudder is a Monitor windvane with an MRud emergency rudder aboard. All boats need their deck fitting re-caulked every few years. A versatile sail plan is pleasant to have. A stout rig is a must.
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Old 18-11-2012, 12:00   #368
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Not a boat in the world ready to go out cruising right off the production line including that outdated lump of one that you have so much belief in!

Outdated lump? Those are bold words coming from a Hunter owner.

RT
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Old 18-11-2012, 12:12   #369
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Headlee View Post
The cure for the spade rudder is a Monitor windvane with an MRud emergency rudder aboard. All boats need their deck fitting re-caulked every few years. A versatile sail plan is pleasant to have. A stout rig is a must.
A cure for the spade rudder is a rudder securely attached to the keel....but because it came first the spade rudder was a design "cure". A properly designed and balanced boat can be sailed with a tiller brake. The rig....my argument for a cutter rig, more versatility and smaller sails to handle (I go round and round about this with a friend who has a "modern" mast head sloop).
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Old 18-11-2012, 17:31   #370
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Some find it hard to imagine that our old crusty lumps don't need a spare rudder.

Being well HUNG has it's advantages.....

I know, irrelevant but tell that to your wife....Bawhahahaha... I crack myself up!

RT
PS Totally agree with the cutter rig especially if both sails are furling and the staysail self tacking. Wheel brakes work well too for those of us with full keels. Apply the brake go down the hole and make a cup of coffee. Try doing that with a squirrelly fin keeler...
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Old 18-11-2012, 19:55   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcapo
But that is neither here nor there. In in other words... irrelevant. Just answer the question boys or are you both ready to take this boat anywhere AS IS?
Good grief. Stop it with the leading questions.

There isn't a boat made that I'd take anywhere AS IS. Do you know any boat made that comes with a life raft as standard equipment?

Get real.
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Old 18-11-2012, 20:52   #372
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Irrelevant= does not agree with my preconceived notions and I don't want to consider the idea.

Jim
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Old 18-11-2012, 21:13   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcapo
Wheel brakes work well too for those of us with full keels. Apply the brake go down the hole and make a cup of coffee. Try doing that with a squirrelly fin keeler...
I've actually done that on a fin keel. You don't need a long keel to have good tracking.
Now tell me, can you turn your boat around within its own length?
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Old 18-11-2012, 21:31   #374
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Can someone please explain how one judges a boat to be "coastal cruiser"? I think we have a pretty good feel for what some consider a bluewater boat. San Francisco bay and buzzards bay are some very coastal areas that can dish up some of the nastiest weather and sea states there is, yet I see many many so called "coastal cruisers" there and sailing, year after year.

Personally I like full keel boats for the way they feel and sail, slow and steady. Does that mean my alberg 30 will take me wherever I wish to go. Some say yes, I say yes as well but after I increase her tankage, repair her decks and a slew of other things that i think is required to hit the seven seas, 30 gallons of water is not gonna get me far. I believe my skill and nerve will carry me through, not necessary what boat I am on.

Will a catalina make it RTW, you bet it will. maybe the hull isn't as thick as some, it may have a spade rudder.....whatever. if it floats it has a good chance it will make it. If it has a skilled sailor onboard even better are the odds. I understand the orignal posters question....curiousity and wanting info on a specific model choice....all he sees here is arguing....not very productive.

I wonder how many of the people giving advice have ever been out of sight of land. Yes the sea can be a dangerous place but let me tell you, more often than not you could sail a hobie cat where ever you wanted to go. Reality is its not that rough out there....there are many many more days with no wind than there are of gale force winds. If weather windows and careful planning is used you could take just about any boat anywhere.
Hell the highways are a dangerous place, we all arent riding around in 18 wheelers to make sure we make it home each day....

Bottom line is all boats are blue water all boats are coastal just depends on where they are sailing.
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Old 19-11-2012, 02:21   #375
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
I've actually done that on a fin keel. You don't need a long keel to have good tracking.
The full-keel crowd calls it "good tracking." You and I call it "unresponsive."
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