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Old 15-11-2012, 07:46   #271
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

rodlmao----a catalina 27 was sailed successfully around the world. a beneteau was sailed successfully around the world.
why don't you believe it is the SAILOR not the BOAT that is the capable participant. the boat will only do that which you make it do. the boat cannot make you do anything.
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Old 15-11-2012, 08:00   #272
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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There are bluewater catamaran designs available.
What's interesting is that a quick look at one of the popular charter boat contact sites seems to indicate a majority of the charters operating in Tahiti/French Polynesia/etc are catamarans. These boats aren't going RTW, of course, but ferrying people betwixt the islands there. I'm not sure how safe I'd feel away from the harbor though ... since I just finished reading a very scary story about a fight between a catamaran and 25 ft SP waves.

The catamaran keeps them away from the coral, I would imagine ...
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Old 15-11-2012, 08:16   #273
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
......
So let me pose a hypothetical question to this most experienced group. You are in New Zealand and have the opportunity to sail to Hawaii on for arguments sake, two Tayana 37’s. One fitted out by a left brainer the other by a right brainer. Both skippers are equally experienced, amiable and physically capable. Which boat do you choose?

RT
OK, I can respond to this. It is a no brainer for me, with strong left brain dominance and a partner (perfect) who is the same, there is no doubt about my selection.
Would anyone honestly want to do a crossing with so some in touch with their feelings rather than someone logically assesssing situations???????
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Old 15-11-2012, 08:22   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch

What's interesting is that a quick look at one of the popular charter boat contact sites seems to indicate a majority of the charters operating in Tahiti/French Polynesia/etc are catamarans. These boats aren't going RTW, of course, but ferrying people betwixt the islands there. I'm not sure how safe I'd feel away from the harbor though ... since I just finished reading a very scary story about a fight between a catamaran and 25 ft SP waves.

The catamaran keeps them away from the coral, I would imagine ...
Right. I thought everyone knew that heavy displacement boats are not safe inshore around coral and if your offshore passage takes you around any banks en route the only safe bluewater option is a cat...

There is no small minded set of criteria, in every area safety is a continuum. Faster boats may be less stable but able to get outside of a squall. Heavier boats may take more to knockdown at times but lack maneuverability that could safe the boat in a tough spot. Because you give something up to get something else, a boat is always a compromise and there are very few boats that make trade offs without getting some benefit. In my view that means the majority of new boats can safely sail in the majority of cruising grounds.
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Old 15-11-2012, 08:26   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcapo

So let me pose a hypothetical question to this most experienced group. You are in New Zealand and have the opportunity to sail to Hawaii on for arguments sake, two Tayana 37’s. One fitted out by a left brainer the other by a right brainer. Both skippers are equally experienced, amiable and physically capable. Which boat do you choose?

RT
Assuming both boats are in equal level of repair, just outfitted by different folks I would think you would get on the boat with the guy you liked more. It's unlikely a Tayana 37 in decent shape will have any problems.
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Old 15-11-2012, 08:38   #276
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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OK, I can respond to this. It is a no brainer to me, with strong left brain dominance and a partner ...
But only us lefties are in our right minds.
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Old 15-11-2012, 08:40   #277
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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But only us lefties are in our right minds.
Well put
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Old 15-11-2012, 08:58   #278
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Seaworthy lass:

Actually, I'm fairly ambidextrous, but tend to port ...
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Old 15-11-2012, 09:11   #279
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
Seaworthy lass:

Actually, I'm fairly ambidextrous, but tend to port ...
Can say I have no strong eye dominance, but more than tend to starboard otherwise
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Old 15-11-2012, 09:19   #280
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by engele View Post
Right. I thought everyone knew that heavy displacement boats are not safe inshore around coral and if your offshore passage takes you around any banks en route the only safe bluewater option is a cat...
Perhaps I misunderstanding, but I don't see your point.

Heavy displacement boats often have a long keel with shallow draft and the ability to hit an obstruction with less damage. I don't understand why you believe these are less suitable for coral waters.
If very shallow draft is required, which it is in some, but not in most coral waters, a swing keel monohul is generally superior to catamaran, having a shallower draft, better underwater protection and some warning.

Of course there are many other considerations in choosing the ideal boat , but I am puzzled by your proclamation that only a cat is suitable.
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Old 15-11-2012, 09:26   #281
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

Maybe it's something about me. Despite carefully researching weather windows, I have had more than my fair share of rough weather on passage (and a few uneventful passages as well). So be it. But, that informs my thinking on this subject. There are boats that are more comfortable (and arguably safer) in a blow than others. While those that are less comfortable may still be perfectly safe in a strict sense, their motion can make for a more fatigued crew. Tired crews sometimes make bad decisions. Bad decisions can lead to bad things.

Just sayin'.
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Old 15-11-2012, 09:43   #282
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
rodlmao----a catalina 27 was sailed successfully around the world. a beneteau was sailed successfully around the world.
why don't you believe it is the SAILOR not the BOAT that is the capable participant. the boat will only do that which you make it do. the boat cannot make you do anything.
Because as stated previously we are discussing the Blue Capability of particular boats. The Blue Water Capability of a Skipper is an entirely different subject.

Why not start a new thread listing the qualities of a Blue Water Skipper?

Therefore, your above paragraph is irrelevant.

RT
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Old 15-11-2012, 10:13   #283
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
Why, because we are talking Blue Water not a walk around the block. There is no one out there to help you (at least immediately) in case of an emergency. This is Murphy’s hunting ground for the ill prepared and ignorant. This is why all considerations regarding hull integrity, hardware, various gear and electronics installed on my boat will be purchased with WORST CASE in mind.
vtcapo, Ive listened to your "murphy" nonsense, biting my lip, but really. Lets leave aside your Murphy comments. In general sailing is a very safe sport, its not even regarded as an extreme sport. Where I live everything is "high latitude" , even here insurance is cheap. Fact is Sailing is not a dangerous activity.

WORST CASE, sure sure, but the fact is you cant define WORST CASE, you just read about in books. Then you extrapolate that into your current design ( you do undertand that Slocum was lost at sea!, not to mention been ship wrecked several times!!! LOL), There are many NAs that will argue that Slocums Spray was no a ocean capable vessel!!

Let me tell you I have seen many sail in mid latitudes that were "ignorant" and unprepared, it is testimony to modern production boats. that such trips almost inevitably end successfully.

Quote:
Ancient rulers when protecting their domain (and your boat is your domain in Blue Water) thought in terms of strategic conditions. Strategic conditions are castles surrounded by a mote, high ground, further protected by rivers, mountains and such that pose an obstacle to their enemy. When sailing Blue Water, Murphy is your enemy. Strategic conditions when sailing are hull integrity, (over better than under built), choosing quality over marginal hardware and gear. That includes a life raft of sufficient size for all on board. If you are not following this credo you are tempting fate.
No as was pointed-out 2" bulletproof glass isnt any better then 1" if the design simply requires 1". Heavy isnt strong. Modern GRP boats are more then sufficient hull integrity ( as its proven by record) Most deck hardware is now mass manufactured by proven global players etc. Building or buying a boat with more"hull integrity" is wasteful, expensive and confers no additional befit. its also vodoo engineering , ie no facts just wishful thinking , (mind you please define that)Please just open you eyes and look around.

Quote:
What we have here is a very simple solution to an important question. The solution hinges upon you recognizing your boats limitations and correcting them. That done you should be able, based on your own sailing experience successfully meet the challenge of Blue Water Sailing. To think you are immune from Murphy’s wrath because statistics show otherwise is wishful thinking at best. And I am being kind.
Constant reference to a mythical character to justify anything is just nonsense. An investigation into failure modes and what happens is far more useful. what this shows ( in general)

(a) Few fatalities or vessel loss at sea, are weather related

(b) Injuries/medical attention requiring extraction are most often caused by simple accidents on board or pre-existing conditions

(c) Keel and rudder failure has happened, but is a tiny percentage of designs afloat, almost always has an extenuating circumstance. Full keels, especially full keel GRP boats have as many problems as any other. Steel vessels also are not as strong as portrayed , especially steel leisure vessels.

(d) WORSE CASE, thats a "case" you cant determine, most likely when it comes, it will come from an area you didnt think off. ( Thats what makes it WORSE CASE). more then likely all your preparations will come to nought. You will then rely on your experience, your ability to solve problems and your common sense. Relying on "things" is foolish.

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So let me pose a hypothetical question to this most experienced group. You are in New Zealand and have the opportunity to sail to Hawaii on for arguments sake, two Tayana 37’s. One fitted out by a left brainer the other by a right brainer. Both skippers are equally experienced, amiable and physically capable. Which boat do you choose?
What a nonsense question, what does that mean . left brain , right brain, Everyone has booth sides. Why would I sail anywhere on a Asian boat , when I can have good german/french engineering!!!!!!.

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Old 15-11-2012, 13:33   #284
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

I just love the way that Murphy is blamed ad nauseum for everything but any answer which does not give credo to that is described as irrelevant.

Think i will use that as a model for my arguements in future.

Coops.
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Old 15-11-2012, 13:42   #285
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Re: Bluewater Cruising Capability

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I just love the way that Murphy is blamed ad nauseum for everything but any answer which does not give credo to that is described as irrelevant.

Think i will use that as a model for my arguements in future.

Coops.

Your "logic" is Murphy's fault!!

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