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Old 24-04-2018, 08:58   #16
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

I think the old spend % of purchase price, now only applies to newer boats, or just those in the higher end of the market.

Actually with the crazy good bargains available for those willing to travel to survey,

percentage of purchase price can go right out the window, just a couple new sails, or upfitting a good fridge can cost more than the whole boat!

Say you total budget to get "good enough" for coastal cruising is $35K.

Maybe the boat only costs $5K, and you take more time and get there for another $20K, saving $10K toward the phase 2 blue water upfit.

Or you spend $15K to buy, and get there more quickly needing the whole remaining $20K.

Or or etc.

Both these scenarios are just as or more likely than,

finding the cherry, all ready to go beauty for $35K.

Or at least will take a **lot** more time and energy looking for her.
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Old 24-04-2018, 09:04   #17
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

Go sailing this summer first. Can you not join a Club on lake Superior and
both try a crossing. Or, try crewing for a racer.
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Old 24-04-2018, 09:35   #18
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

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Starting the process of planning my first adventure. Been reading everything I can but with so much info it’s been difficult to narrow down boats for someone like myself. Trying to keep the initial purchase to under 30-40K and doind some refitting-to make it complete.
Would appreciate some suggestions. Trying to stay in the 30-35ft range. There will be 2 of us starting with friends visiting regularly. Planning to circumnavigate at least once.
Safety, ease of use, good in rough seas would be first thoughts. Basically if it were you... what boats would be your first choices to look at?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts and guidance!
to me this is about the bottom of the market, but all is not lost Id be looking at several approaches.

Firstly whatever it is, if its cheap then whatever it needs has to be properly costed. Really the most straight forward way is getting a survey which will nail down any problems and put at ease many others. But surveys cost money so you need to be reasonably sure about a prospective boat from the get go.

Be looking at navionics, make sure it has a dinghy, VHF, epirb, safety gear, anchors and chain, and the rig is up to it. Some things like flares fire extinguishers and epirb are time limited, check the dates.

Id be dropping plans like circumnavigation, Ive a feeling it takes more than you anticipate. It takes a long time to figure it all out, and cruising is pretty much the same experience anywhere anyways.

As to boats, Id be looking in the 33ft range because theyre cheaper to dock, cutting costs will be important. If it was me (and it isnt) boats are so much a matter of taste, based on my experience Id look around for something like a Herreshoff Meadowlark; spend a year and get some skills up, learn to rough it. Theyre simple to repair, not delicate, worthy and able, but short on anything like the luxuries of life where even standing up inside is a problem.

Given these arent everyones cup of tea then back to plastic my first choice would be a Morgan OI 33 roomy and plentiful, and the B listers would be Pearson 323, you might find a Catalina 34.

At the end of the day its more depended on what you can find. Most boats on the market are rather needy of money. Situate yourself where boats are plentiful like Florida, and keep looking like everyone wants your money and none of them deserve it.
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Old 24-04-2018, 12:27   #19
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

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Originally Posted by gulfcoastsailor View Post
One word: CREW

Doing it on OPB is the best way to get your feet wet and learn if this life is really for you. Hell, you may even get paid! After one year you will be able to answer most of your questions yourselves. ~_/)
Someone has to ask.
What does OPB mean?
Please let me in on the secret.
Thanks
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Old 24-04-2018, 12:40   #20
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

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Someone has to ask.
What does OPB mean?
Please let me in on the secret.
Thanks
Other People's Boats
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Oregon Public Broadcasting
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Old 24-04-2018, 13:02   #21
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

Suggestion from a recent ex newbie myself on the way to his second boat: buy something in the best shape you can for an amount of money you can afford to lose without much pain. It is only your first boat and there will be others. First boat is just to learn if sailing and boat ownership is for you and what you like. For the second boat you will then be able to answer this question yourself. Have fun !
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Old 24-04-2018, 14:04   #22
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

Perhaps consider what you want to do and where you want to go. A circumnavigation (of the Earth do you mean?) is a huge undertaking. I presume from your post that you’re not planning a non stop trip, (a very different sort of trip and requirements). On this forum most of us think ‘cruising’ is essentially short passage making place to place with longish stopovers at leisure (usually several days or more to see and experience the sights), with occasional long passages. A short passage is typically achieved in less than 24 hours.

You mention friends/family joining you for legs. Bear in mind that the further from home the less likely this becomes. People from the work-a-day life have very different schedules and expectations. Their leisure is based around available leave and flight schedules, nice meals and yummy drinks, where as yours will be based on weather windows, often one pot cooking and what do I feel like doing at this moment. Very difficult to plan schedules and dates to accommodate visitors when you’re cruising. Stuff happens, and you’ll never be early.

Also living on a boat is very different than say a hotel for your guests holiday. Most people don’t adapt especially well to living in a cramped boat with everything ‘child’ size. Having to step over, climb up, or get down on the floor to open a cupboard, remembering and trying to conserve water and power, using a tiny toilet and shower etc is not for everyone. And being cooped up in a boat for a week or so of constant rain and wind is no fun at all, especially at a rolly anchorage.

Another problem with your plan is that it requires a solid ocean going yacht. So serious money, serious risks and serious demands on the boat. And given your obvious lack of sailing you don’t really have a clue what an ocean passage is all about both for yourself, crew or the boat. And that’s not a criticism, it’s a fact. You can learn for sure, everyone starts somewhere, but go and get some local and blue water experience and see if you like it before selling up and sailing out. There’s always people looking for crew. And it gives you significant insight on what works and what doesn’t in a boat. I think actual sailing is hugely more valuable than vicarious learnings through, blogs, books and youtube.

But back to the boat. If you just want to see the world, another far less costly option is to fly in, and buy local. Virtually everywhere in the world there are cheap old 28-35 footer day sailors that are excellent local cruising boats. So you sail around till you’ve seen enough, flick off the boat and fly on to the next country/area or fly home again for a few months working till you’ve saved enough for the next adventure.

In New Zealand where I live, sailing down from Fiji or Tonga is a nightmare trip for many and the trip requires a very very strong and well equipped boat and reasonably experienced crew. But air flights are inexpensive and plentiful and when you get here cheap boats abound. For $5-10K US you can buy a very decent yacht and when you sell it say 6 months later you won’t have lost much money. Sure for that price the boat you buy isn’t going to be a blue water cruiser, but she will be a very adequate, reasonably well equipped local cruising boat. And the worst you lose is the purchase price.

Many people cruise this way. And I don’t know why we don’t have more people on the forum talking about their experiences doing exactly this. Young Europeans in particular do this quite often. They want to visit NZ or Tahiti or Japan or where ever. So they organise 6 months leave from their job, pop $20K in their travel kitty, arrive at their (studied) destination and buy a boat for the duration. Often they’ve near enough done the boat purchase on-line before arrival.

And there’s no reason you couldn’t try this approach. If you find you love the life after 6 months or so, then yeah fall back on your current plan, buy and refit a fantastic ocean cruiser and go for it.

But beware, because the majority of people never do actually leave. They typically buy a project boat and then start to spend copious quantities of time and money getting the boat and themselves ‘ready’ (whatever that means). Five years later their interest has waned, their life has moved on, and they have a big expensive problem that decays a little more each day.

You say “trying to keep the initial purchase to under 30-40K and doing some refitting-to make it complete.” Honestly dude you are very unlikely to luck in on a decent blue water cruiser for that. Also you’ll need to have some seriously good boat building skills. And it doesn’t sound like boat building has been a part of your life to date. And you live in Minnesoto? You’re hardly surrounded by sea, so you’ll likely have to buy the boat miles and miles away from where it is to your home for the refit. Or alternatively you move your life to where the boat is. However you achieve this, it will not be cheap and it’s a big problem. I’m sure just looking for a boat is a problem from where you live. I’ve no idea what it costs to travel to say Florida and spend a couple of weeks looking at boats for sale. But I’m sure travel, accommodation, rental car etc would be what? 3K for two of you?

Just to emphasise a couple of points. Someone in an earlier post recommended Mahina Expeditions. I’d not heard of Mahina before and clicked the link. What an amazing resource and so thank, you thank you BlackHeron. But Mahina have listed a handful of boats for sale and the cheapest I could see was $149K NZ (roughly US$107K). That’s realistic for a proven blue water mono! And All the boats available will all need work and materials because it is never ending on a boat, plus of course they’re up to half a world away.

But on a positive, why not book yourself on one of Mahina’s ocean legs For $3K plus airfare you’ll have a wonderful experience, learn heaps and have a good idea if you like the life style. Cheaper still join a sailing club and make friends with people with boats. As well as Mahina there are many expedition companies offering this type of service based in pretty much any/everywhere in the world you want to go.

So to sum up. My message to you Dan is for both yourself and partner to think very carefully about what it is that you’re trying to achieve and where you want to travel. Then consider the options to get there.

PS Thank you too for an explanation of OPB - Other People's Boats. That's a new abbreviation to me, and good suggestion for all newbies.
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Old 24-04-2018, 14:40   #23
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

I find myself in a similar situation. I want to do some cruising, mostly alone, but have space for guests. I'd like to be comfortable on blue water crossings. And I I want to keep the cost down. You said $30-$40k (I assume usd).

Your budget right away means that you will be looking at older, established boats from the 70s and 80s. Cats are over your budget by a longshot.

Personally, I add the criteria of shallow(ish) draft, because I like to explore. My home waters are thin, and the difference between 4 feet and 6 feet draft is a big deal on where you can and cannot go locally.

So, here are some great boats to consider:

Pearson 39: It fits easily in your budget, draws less than 5 feet, and has a cool pilot berth in the main cabin. Pearson is well known for strong, heavily built boats. The weight and length should help when the wind and waves get big. I'm not sure I like the helm position, at the forward end of the cockpit, but most owners seem to like it. This model is on my list. 1976 pearson 39 sloop sailboat for sale in Florida

Pearson 35: With a swing keel this boat draws less than 4 feet. Great for the Bahamas. Opens up many places deep draft can't go. Smaller version of the 39(above), so less money, less comfort, and fewer bunks. If you want to save $, this is an option.1978 Pearson 35 Pearson, Bradenton / Sarasota line Florida - boats.com

Niagara 35: Classic rugged vessel. However, cored hull means survey is imperative. 1981 Hinterhoeller 35 Niagara, Norfolk Virginia - boats.com

Bayfield 36: Full keeled beauty. Predecessor of the incredible Gozzard 36. Strong boat with classic looks. But it's also kinda...slow. 1986 bayfield bayfield 36 sailboat for sale in Florida

Corbin 39: These are popular word cruisers, but I'm not a fan. Maybe a little over your budget.

C&C Landfall: These capable boats have a strong following and are priced right. Caution, the landfall series if very different than most of the C&C line...it is not a race boat like most other C&C models.

Well, those are just a few off the top of my head. They may prove useful to you for research purposes. But I would not get married to any particular model too quickly. Rather, look in your local area and see what is available. I believe "the boat chooses you", rather than the other way round. If you choose a particular model, you may spend a year searching for it, then find it on the wrong coast, or incur huge shipping costs. Better to look locally, post notes at the local yacht clubs, talk to local sailors...and see what comes up.

Avoid orphans (one offs/custom built) unless you know what you are doing.
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Old 24-04-2018, 14:47   #24
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

Quote:
Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
Suggestion from a recent ex newbie myself on the way to his second boat: buy something in the best shape you can for an amount of money you can afford to lose without much pain. It is only your first boat and there will be others. First boat is just to learn if sailing and boat ownership is for you and what you like. For the second boat you will then be able to answer this question yourself. Have fun !
Such wise words I had to quote and agree. With old boats, condition is everything. The goal is find a boat that has been fully reconditioned and outfit for a circumnav, and then the owner got sick/died before the cruise started. I know this is harsh, but the ads are full of these. It also emphasizes just how long a refit can take. The real currency of cruising is good health. I read that on CF recently, and cannot agree more.

As you go through life, your boat requirements change. Kids grow up. Wives leave. Money comes and goes. It helps if you can adjust your boat to your needs. There is no single "right" boat...more like a boat which is "right now". This is how I have owned and loved 8 boats so far, and searching for number 9, which hopefully will take me south, away from these horrible Canadian winters.
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Old 24-04-2018, 20:03   #25
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

Add Tartan 37 to your list. Great boat. At the top end of your budget. 1977 Tartan 37 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 24-04-2018, 21:16   #26
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

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You say “trying to keep the initial purchase to under 30-40K and doing some refitting-to make it complete.” Honestly dude you are very unlikely to luck in on a decent blue water cruiser for that. Also you’ll need to have some seriously good boat building skills. And it doesn’t sound like boat building has been a part of your life to date. And you live in Minnesoto? You’re hardly surrounded by sea, so you’ll likely have to buy the boat miles and miles away from where it is to your home for the refit. Or alternatively you move your life to where the boat is. However you achieve this, it will not be cheap and it’s a big problem. I’m sure just looking for a boat is a problem from where you live. I’ve no idea what it costs to travel to say Florida and spend a couple of weeks looking at boats for sale. But I’m sure travel, accommodation, rental car etc would be what? 3K for two of you?
We paid about $30k for our Hallberg-Rassy-35 Rasmus and have about $50k into it at this point. It now has all the things we want/need. But no watermaker, radar, or refrigeration. It's a boat that is on the Mahina list, and is favorably reviewed on Bluewaterboats.org . So it is possible to find decent bluewater boats in this price range. But you might have to adjust your wish list a little bit. To us, a bluewater boat that was in our budget was more important than a lot of luxuries so many people today demand.
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Old 24-04-2018, 21:34   #27
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

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Originally Posted by Danvrgs View Post
Starting the process of planning my first adventure. Been reading everything I can but with so much info it’s been difficult to narrow down boats for someone like myself. Trying to keep the initial purchase to under 30-40K and doind some refitting-to make it complete.
Would appreciate some suggestions. Trying to stay in the 30-35ft range. There will be 2 of us starting with friends visiting regularly. Planning to circumnavigate at least once.
Safety, ease of use, good in rough seas would be first thoughts. Basically if it were you... what boats would be your first choices to look at?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts and guidance!
Well, Dan, what I think is that it is very hard to make a good choice without having sailed for at least a year. It is not that sailing is difficult, but that there is a lot of collateral knowledge (piloting, navigation, repair) that you also need to experience. Then, when you look for an offshore boat, you will know what kinds of access to *stuff* you need to have.

For a starter boat, one 30 footer is a Sparkman & Stevens 30, called a Yankee 30 in the US. Jim and I sailed one to HI and back years ago, from SF, and decided we wanted a stiffer boat for ocean passages, but it is a good sailing boat, good in all conditions, a good light air boat, as well. We used to take friends out for day sails on it, but the accommodations would not be satisfactory for more than two on a long ocean passage, and the storage would be a nightmare.

You could start even smaller, with something like a Catalina 22, zillions available, lots of fun, and you'll meet people with larger boats, that you can take a look at.

I agree with the poster above about crewing on OPB's. You will experience a variety of conditions with more experienced people and you will learn through osmosis. You will experience different skippering styles. It is really a big responsibility to skipper your own boat, and take care of it and the crew on a passage. Trivializing that would be a danger for others, as well as yourself. Imho, one of the trickier things to learn is how to question your own ideas of solutions to problems.

It is a pretty open and generous world you are about to enter. Enjoy.

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Old 25-04-2018, 09:42   #28
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

I have a Spencer 42-2, IMHO it is hard to find a better boat, especially at the price point they can be had for.

1968 Spencer 42 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1973 Spencer Cutter Sloop sailboat for sale in

They are a fine sailing boat, mine will make 5-5.2 knots in 7.5-8 knots of wind, and she will point at 28° to the wind making that speed.

They are a sleek, stable fast boat.

I highly recommend looking into them, there were only 26 of them made, of that original 26 we still know where 23 of those are!

However because of this they don't come up for sale often.

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Old 25-04-2018, 12:48   #29
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

And there was that Spencer 35 given away for scrap in San Diego. Google “Hal Roth” and Spencer 35 and you can see why that boat should have been of value to someone. As you learn more about boats you will be more able to see the wheat from the chaff. It takes a little time.
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Old 25-04-2018, 12:51   #30
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Re: Bluewater cruiser suggestions for newbies

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And there was that Spencer 35 given away for scrap in San Diego. Google “Hal Roth” and Spencer 35 and you can see why that boat should have been of value to someone. As you learn more about boats you will be more able to see the wheat from the chaff. It takes a little time.
Wish I had known about it, I am running the Spencer Yacht Owners Group on Facebook now, I would have posted it there!
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