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Old 16-01-2010, 05:09   #31
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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
IF it worries you, the open transom is an option and very convenient too (except when that fish slides out the back after you catch him! I say: go for the huge cockpit and avoid the storm of the century! I hate cramped cockpits... do you drive a Hummer or F250 on the freway to stay safe?
Of course, the fish could be you. In general I think modern open transoms are a good thing - IF they were engineered correctly. I have been pooped in a small cockpit and I can only imagine what would have happened as that volume of water were drained out the back via a big hole. I would have trailed behind. Or perhaps I'm just paranoid.
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Old 16-01-2010, 05:33   #32
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I spent a fair bit of time....OK, a great deal of time considering the cockpit size and shape before I built it.
For me, being able to lay down (6'-2") and fast draining (two 2" drains) were the priorities.
Also being able to brace my legs against something.
Of course I had limitations do to interior space as well, compromise, compromise.
One great advantage I have, is I built the companionway “washboards” to slide down in a track, that gave me a sump that gets water off the floor fast…also have a floor grating.
My cockpit is small, but does fit my requirements.
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Old 16-01-2010, 07:34   #33
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This is a very important discussion. An inshore cockpit should have the same qualities as an offshore one except that the chance of a wave crashing over the boat is greater offshore.

The point is that the cockpit is where you spend a LOT of time on a boat both sailing (of course) and at anchor. And anchor you want one which is large, comfortable and can offer protection from rain and sun.

In a seaway you want one all the features of the at anchor cockpit, plus maximum visibility forward, quickly draining and with increased security on the sides.

A cockpit can be made to meet these specs by removable features such as dodgers, biminis, lee clothes. But one needs to consider visibility and increaded windage especially with dodgers.

Cockpit scuppers can't be too large and if possible increase them to enable rapid draining.

You also want robust hand holds and attachment locations for harnesses.

Cockpit locker lids need to have a strong mechanism to secure them shut. Watertight is nice by probably over kill.

You'll also want to consider the cockpit's role in MOB recovery with consideration to deployment of MOB poles, life slings, horeshoes and throw cushions and the life raft if one needs to abandon ship.

While a small cockpit can be a seaworthy one, it doesn't support the needs of a crew at anchor and in fair weather cruising.

Like all things this will be a series of trade offs and the cockpit is not something you can choose and add to your boat, but it would certainly be one of the KEY features to START from when selecting a yacht.

We have a large aft cockpit which has done well in many offshore passages including gale force winds in the Gulf Stream. The cockpit is one of the best designed feature of our boat.
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Old 16-01-2010, 07:52   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
This is a very important discussion. An inshore cockpit should have the same qualities as an offshore one except that the chance of a wave crashing over the boat is greater offshore.

The point is that the cockpit is where you spend a LOT of time on a boat both sailing (of course) and at anchor. And anchor you want one which is large, comfortable and can offer protection from rain and sun.

In a seaway you want one all the features of the at anchor cockpit, plus maximum visibility forward, quickly draining and with increased security on the sides.

A cockpit can be made to meet these specs by removable features such as dodgers, biminis, lee clothes. But one needs to consider visibility and increaded windage especially with dodgers.

Cockpit scuppers can't be too large and if possible increase them to enable rapid draining.

You also want robust hand holds and attachment locations for harnesses.

Cockpit locker lids need to have a strong mechanism to secure them shut. Watertight is nice by probably over kill.

You'll also want to consider the cockpit's role in MOB recovery with consideration to deployment of MOB poles, life slings, horeshoes and throw cushions and the life raft if one needs to abandon ship.

While a small cockpit can be a seaworthy one, it doesn't support the needs of a crew at anchor and in fair weather cruising.

Like all things this will be a series of trade offs and the cockpit is not something you can choose and add to your boat, but it would certainly be one of the KEY features to START from when selecting a yacht.

We have a large aft cockpit which has done well in many offshore passages including gale force winds in the Gulf Stream. The cockpit is one of the best designed feature of our boat.
I agree with pretty much every thing you said, however, I would add that some boats...like mine, have other places to hang out when at anchor…like around the sides of the cockpit and the aft and forward decks…my priorities for the cockpit were based on sailing needs.
Your cockpit is lovely…one thing I wish I had room for was a table.
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Old 16-01-2010, 08:01   #35
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My main complaint about my Tayana 37 is the small cockpit. If I were designing a boat from scratch, I would want a bigger (though quick-draining) cockpit in which it's easy to trade places at the helm. How I rationalize that with my aesthetic fondness for canoe sterms I haven't quite figured out yet, though.
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Old 16-01-2010, 08:10   #36
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I really think that the modern designs with walk-through transoms are great.
Eliminating the need for through-hull cockpit drains has been a real advancement in design. An 18" slot in the transom is a rather effective drain!

In my years as a broker I was aboard hundreds of different boats and was always amazed at how many of them had cockpits the size of an eight person hot tub, no bridgedeck at the companionway and two 3/4-1" drains.
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Old 16-01-2010, 08:19   #37
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I really think that the modern designs with walk-through transoms are great.
Eliminating the need for through-hull cockpit drains has been a real advancement in design. An 18" slot in the transom is a rather effective drain!

In my years as a broker I was aboard hundreds of different boats and was always amazed at how many of them had cockpits the size of an eight person hot tub, no bridgedeck at the companionway and two 3/4-1" drains.
Yes, again, I basically agree with some degree of concern. Recently I had a Christmas Day sail aboard a friend's Jenneau 42 DS. The totality of the closure on the otherwise open transom is a 1/4" lifeline strung across. If we were pooped and the water egressed quickly off the transom, is it an unreasonable concern that one or more off us would be swept off too?
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Old 16-01-2010, 09:50   #38
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Having hit the biggest waves Labor Day weekend this year that I have encountered on Lake Ontario so far, the cockpit stayed totally dry. Nonsuch boats have huge cockpits that make them non-blue water boats. They were designed for comfortable sailing on the great lakes. One suggestion from a fellow sailor was to increase the size of the drains to 3"...sounds huge.
Having never sailed on large swells (blue water) I would be worried about being pooped and avoid weather like that anyway. At least that is the plan to save cruising for when I have all the time in the world. I agree that having a comfortable cockpit is very important as it is the most used space while sailing.
My brother noted that the transomless boats of late make for very easy boarding of elderly crew but everything else leaving the boat would also be my concern as has been brought up in this thread. I use the cockpit for temporary storage while rigging for docking...fenders, lines etc. This is the state we were in prior to encountering the set of waves. It would not be a good thing to have to chase down fenders and such in those conditions.
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Old 16-01-2010, 10:37   #39
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Yes, again, I basically agree with some degree of concern. Recently I had a Christmas Day sail aboard a friend's Jenneau 42 DS. The totality of the closure on the otherwise open transom is a 1/4" lifeline strung across. If we were pooped and the water egressed quickly off the transom, is it an unreasonable concern that one or more off us would be swept off too?
I agree with this.
Cockpits that are completely open with only a single lifeline across the top of the opening could potentially be a danger. Those that are only partially open with a walk through that is protected by a seat and a lifeline would be prefered. Additional lifeline netting across the opening is also a good idea as is wearing a harness and jackline in the cockpit when the going gets dicey.
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Old 16-01-2010, 12:34   #40
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cockpit location and esthetics.

For what it's worth:

Ours is a beautiful sport and many of us are in it because the venues, and our craft, are esthetically pleasing. CC boats are universally Ugly!
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Old 16-01-2010, 12:59   #41
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C&C Boats are beautiful, not to mention built really well!

Ever seen a Buccaneer or a Yorktown!

Beauty is in the eye...

In a "Better than-Worse than" society, people are compelled to defend themselves and their choices as best by making everyone else and everyone elses choices worse.
That or completely loose all sense of self-esteem when they realize that they are actually worse and someone else is best (as in pulling up to a stop sign in a Yugo and having a Mecedes pull up next to you). Thats when the only hope for redemption is to think..."Well at least my Yugo is paid for and that poor shlub in the Benz is making monthly payments". Then the Yugo driver can, in his mind at least, position himself as superior to the Mercedes owner. Survival achieved and the Yugo driver can go forth to make the next in a never ending sieries of "better than-worse than" judgements about other humans.
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Old 16-01-2010, 13:03   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
C&C Boats are beautiful, not to mention built really well!

Ever seen a Buccaneer or a Yorktown!

Beauty is in the eye...

In a "Better than-Worse than" society, people are compelled to defend themselves and their choices as best by making everyone else and everyone elses choices worse.
That or completely loose all sense of self-esteem when they realize that they are actually worse and someone else is best (as in pulling up to a stop sign in a Yugo and having a Mecedes pull up next to you). Thats when the only hope for redemption is to think..."Well at least my Yugo is paid for and that poor shlub in the Benz is making monthly payments". Then the Yugo driver can, in his mind at least, position himself as superior to the Mercedes owner. Survival achieved and the Yugo driver can go forth to make the next in a never ending sieries of "better than-worse than" judgements about other humans.
Well said.

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Old 16-01-2010, 14:20   #43
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CC vs. C&C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
C&C Boats are beautiful, not to mention built really well!

Ever seen a Buccaneer or a Yorktown!

Beauty is in the eye...

In a "Better than-Worse than" society, people are compelled to defend themselves and their choices as best by making everyone else and everyone elses choices worse.
That or completely loose all sense of self-esteem when they realize that they are actually worse and someone else is best (as in pulling up to a stop sign in a Yugo and having a Mecedes pull up next to you). Thats when the only hope for redemption is to think..."Well at least my Yugo is paid for and that poor shlub in the Benz is making monthly payments". Then the Yugo driver can, in his mind at least, position himself as superior to the Mercedes owner. Survival achieved and the Yugo driver can go forth to make the next in a never ending sieries of "better than-worse than" judgements about other humans.

Liam...

CC = Center Cockpit
C&C (I own one and think its Gawjus) is Cuthbertson and Cassian. I get the difference and hope you do also.

Don't teach unless you're getting paid for it.

"Saiulstoo"
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Old 16-01-2010, 14:35   #44
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"Don't teach unless you're getting paid for it" ??????

Sailstoo, that would make for a pretty mercenary and ignorant world. Worse than it already is. Not to mention the value of this Forum would collapse.

Take it from me (for free), center cockpit boats are not UNIVERSALLY ugly, except evidently to your eye. Lets all teach what we know, and not confuse opinions with facts.
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Old 16-01-2010, 14:48   #45
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Thanks...

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"Don't teach unless you're getting paid for it" ??????

Sailstoo, that would make for a pretty mercenary and ignorant world. Worse than it already is. Not to mention the value of this Forum would collapse.

Take it from me (for free), center cockpit boats are not UNIVERSALLY ugly, except evidently to your eye. Lets all teach what we know, and not confuse opinions with facts.
Tareua,

So, it's a fact that CC (center cockpit as opposed to C&C) boats are not UNIVERSALLY ugly and coming from you that's a fact, not an opinion. But coming from me, a similar statement is an opinion, not a fact.

Thanks for the lecture Tareua. I've learned a great deal.

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