Bluewater Boats

[aspiringsailor]

since it deffinitly will be a long time before i purchase. i think i am going to set a budget to save for of 200,000. about 150,00 or so for the boat and about 50,000 for a refit. I realize that each boat will vary greatly on how well the previous owner took care of her. My search for boats at this time might be pointless, but i like to plan ahead and prepare financially for when the time comes. This is my lifelong dream and feel that i will be more successful with proper planning rather than just wingin it when it comes down to the wire.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by aspiringsailor

150,00 or so for the boat and about 50,000 for a refit.

Good luck. It will be a great adventure both preparing and actually going.

We have helped friends and followed many many refits and you will be on the low side there with your refit budget.

For a 10-20 year-old boat the typical refit cost is 30-50% of the purchase price.

For more than 20 years old the typical refit cost is 50-100% of the purchase price.

I will rephrase my previous advice a bit - don't sweat or stress about picking the boat. You will easily find many available that can do the job. If you want to sweat or stress about something boat related, do it about the refitting - building enough skills and knowledge to be able to do much of it yourself (you pretty much have to maintain the boat yourself once you go cruising) and to manage other people to do what you cannot.

[aspiringsailor]

im not stressed, just a newb dreamin. i was under the impression that about 1/4 of the purchase price to refit was a good figure? I have seen people suggest percentages of the perchase price to refit. Is the figures given mostly with the intention of having someone else do the work for the refit? My mechanical and carpentry skills are very good, it will just be a matter of applying those toward boats.

[estarzinger]

We have all sorts of details and data on this, but the general answer is that the older the boat, the more the owner tends to do the refit himself. In the numbers I posted above, the 10-20 year old refits are about 50% owner labor and 50% hired contractor. The greater than 20 year old refits are 80-100% owner labor.

These are average ranges and you may be able to find a better prepared boat and be able to do the refit more inexpensively, but I think it useful to be aware what others in your situation have in fact spent. In most cases it was more than the owners initially expected.

It's excellent you have practical skills that will help a great deal both getting ready and once you go cruising. I had very few practical skills when I started cruising and had to steep learning curve on electricity and diesel engines.

[Hud3]

Percentage rules of thumb can be misleading. Quite a few variables are involved...

• The purchase price itself, which is the base for calculating refit percentage
• The condition of the boat to begin with
• What equipment is already installed and up to snuff
• Refitting for offshore vs. coastal sailing
• How much work can be done yourself
• Buying new vs. used refit equipment
• The inevitable "surprises" that you'll encounter in a used boat

So, I'd suggest you count on 25% minimum, to 100% or more on the high side, depending. Not very helpful, but it really depends on the specific boat that you end up buying. That's why it's important to understand what you're getting into when you lay your money down. A competent survey is certainly critical, but you should build your own knowledge and expertise in the time you have before you actually go shopping.

[aspiringsailor]

I have never really understood why people use a percentage of the purchase price anyway. Say you take the same year boat and model. One costs 200,00 one 150,000. I would think the higher priced one was better taken care of needing less done. but if you use your 50% for instance you would be spending considerably more for a refit for the higher priced one, whereas you would think the cheaper one needed more work therefore the higher refit costs. I know everything is succeptable and variable which is why i have never really understood the percentage of the purchase price criteria. but thats just my thoughts.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by aspiringsailor

I have never really understood why people use a percentage of the purchase price anyway...

Exactly!

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by aspiringsailor

I would think the higher priced one was better taken care of needing less done.

Often the higher priced boat is higher priced because it has more equipment (much of which you may not want or need) rather than requiring less refit work. But other times you are of course right - it is higher priced because the basic boat has been better maintained.

If you want to look at gross numbers rather than %, your $50k still looks possible, but slightly on the light side for a major refit. If we look at the gross numbers for the 40-45ft refits we have seen, the refit cost range is $30K to $250K. The boat's that spend $50k and less were very simple refits - they basically rebuilt the structure/rig, bought sails and anchors and windvanes and left - and did not add refrigeration or beefed up electrical systems or watermakers or radar or the many other things that your will see listed as 'essential' in other threads on this BB.

[zeehag]

jedi---the parrot ate the jolly roger and the kat ate the parrot!!!!! i will take you up on that!!!!

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Good luck. It will be a great adventure both preparing and actually going.

We have helped friends and followed many many refits and you will be on the low side there with your refit budget.

For a 10-20 year-old boat the typical refit cost is 30-50% of the purchase price.

For more than 20 years old the typical refit cost is 50-100% of the purchase price.

I will rephrase my previous advice a bit - don't sweat or stress about picking the boat. You will easily find many available that can do the job. If you want to sweat or stress about something boat related, do it about the refitting - building enough skills and knowledge to be able to do much of it yourself (you pretty much have to maintain the boat yourself once you go cruising) and to manage other people to do what you cannot.

Interesting figures, but I can't imagine where you got them. I have a 30 year old boat and the refit is nowhere near those figures. Perhaps you're talking about a derelict?

[Fishman_Tx]

If the refit cost that much (50k), i wouldn't pay 150k for that boat in the first place. I would expect better condition than that!

[estarzinger]

They are real numbers spent (total costs) in real refits for people that actually untied the dock lines and went cruising.

So, what have you done to your boat in your 'refit'? What did you pay for a complete set of new sails? I spent $30,000 a few years ago myself just taking my rig completely to bits (needed new gooseneck fittings and a new headstay and a new jumper stay, and inspect all/fix a few terminals etc) and anodizing all my hatches and ports (and new glass/acrylic).

I am not selling anything here, just telling you what some other cruisers have actually spent. If you don't think it applies to you and you can do it for much less that's terrific.

[barnakiel]

Quote " ... i never wanted a deerfoot nor do i find them attractive--i like the lines and looks of the garden designed formosa/ct/hardin sea wolf..."

Yes, but the thread is about bluewater boats. I like Formosa too, but how seaworthy is it (compared to Deerfoot)???

And my very personal swing is that not finding a Deerfoot attractive is a CRIME!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

And my very personal swing is that not finding a Deerfoot attractive is a CRIME!

Indeed. Let me add this: when your sailor heart doesn't start beating faster when you see something like the attached photo of Beowulf, it's time to bury your anchor! This is the last of the Dashew generation of sailboats, so even with her 78' and that pure raw speed, it's still designed to be sailed by just a cruising couple (elderly even!), incl. the spinnakers. This is *the* blue water cruiser to beat and nothing does or will for a long time to come. It's also 78' and more money than I can dream of and there are only two around I think. But all the smaller and older Dashew boats have the same feel and characteristics, even Intermezzo II and certainly the Deerfoots and Sundeers.

We get a lot of comments about Jedi and several "traditional boat" skippers told us they don't like the lines and I can fully understand that. But never ever they repeat that once they see her going under full sail.

I will always remember our departure from Trinidad, coming out of the boca under full sails doing 11 knots hard on the wind just as a traditional cutter was approaching. I saw this old salt standing in the cockpit with tears in his eyes, screaming stuff like "holy moly" and "go Jedi go!". He might not like the lines, but seeing a Dashew machine going at it like only sailors can appreciate, it didn't matter anymore how she looks.
I get a feeling of awe when I see a 60' traditional schooner coming along, flying sails I don't even know the names of. This just shows that in the end, it's about sailing a blue water boat in it's element of wind and wide open water while preserving an acceptable level of safety, and it doesn't matter if the design is traditional or radical as long as it's suitable for the task and the number of crew aboard.

ciao!
Nick.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

They are real numbers spent (total costs) in real refits for people that actually untied the dock lines and went cruising.

So, what have you done to your boat in your 'refit'? What did you pay for a complete set of new sails? I spent $30,000 a few years ago myself just taking my rig completely to bits (needed new gooseneck fittings and a new headstay and a new jumper stay, and inspect all/fix a few terminals etc) and anodizing all my hatches and ports (and new glass/acrylic).

I am not selling anything here, just telling you what some other cruisers have actually spent. If you don't think it applies to you and you can do it for much less that's terrific.

So, what percentage is $30K of a $750K boat? Most of us own peashooters compared to you.