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Old 24-11-2010, 14:26   #91
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same old crap agruements
Same old crap question...
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Old 24-11-2010, 15:28   #92
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It's not old, or crap, for me. Only learned the 'puter recently. Sent my first e mail just a few years ago while stuck alone in Puntarenas. Forum is a new thing,fer me.
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Old 24-11-2010, 16:57   #93
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Why don't you find a broker who is willing to show you a bunch of boats. Perhaps you will fall in love with one that meets the criteria stated.

Hi Jerin,

recommend me some good agents on the east coast.
i did call one or two agents but they said they have boats only in 100K+ range while there are so many pearsons, albergs in 30-50k range.
I don't know any on the east coast but I would just contact a few and ask if they are willing to spend the time with you.
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Old 29-11-2010, 09:14   #94
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I think attitudes have changed as much, or more, than the technology. The belief is that better (and more easily accessible) weather forecasting, plus GPS, will make up for any deficiencies in modern production boats.

Considering that 10-day forecasts are about the practical limit of anything resembling reliability (and that's very iffy) and Milk Run passages can be 30 days or more, I think it's a naive point of view.

I'd be the first to take advantage of everything I could in the way of weather windows and technology to make a safe passage, but I would be uncomfortable doing so in anything that couldn't save my butt if surprised. Call me a chicken.

To get an idea how attitudes have changed: I was reading from a 1978 anthology of Sail cruising articles the other day. It had an article on "making your [production] boat ready for offshore" which included upgrading rigging and hardware as discussed here and - get this - strengthening the hull by adding fiberglass to the interior. Considering that boats of that era had more "glass" by far than virtually any of today's boats, you can get a feel for the attitude that was prevalent then.
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Old 29-11-2010, 09:35   #95
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bluewater boat

So far there is no clear consensus as to what make constitutes a bluewater boat.
It is accepted that older boats like PSC, IP, SCs, Tayanas, Capedorys, etc are proven (slow) voyagers but these days many are crossing oceans in (fast)Beneteaus and Bavarias which the "purists" turn down completely.

but the fact is that most of the major bluewater boat manufacturers are out of business. WHY? except PSC and IP are there any other company producing blue water boats?

Modern Production boats which many believe will have real tough time if caught in Hurricane, or big waves at the capes. but their production is going smoothly. more such boats are being produced. HOW COME?

and by the way a lot of us do think that if I have that particular baot and if needed can my boat go round the cape?
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Old 29-11-2010, 09:44   #96
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Modern Production boats which many believe will have real tough time if caught in Hurricane, or big waves at the capes. but their production is going smoothly. more such boats are being produced. HOW COME?
I'm not saying that there hasn't been a "sea change" in the market, but modern (efficient) mass production (which includes cutting corners in some areas) and marketing techniques have a lot to do with it.

Beneteau/Jenneau can produce a boat at $250K that would have cost one of those out-of-business manufacturers twice that much.

Marketing boats like automobiles also goes a long way toward explaining this, I think. By illiciting a demand psychology for the 'latest model' you can increase turnover considerably.
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Old 29-11-2010, 09:52   #97
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Just about any boat can get around the Cape's....
Where the confusion/ignorance kicks in is people only see the storm conditions the racers/solo challengers face as they try to meet their records...
The fact is the Cape's are like any coastal waters in the world... they have calm gentle days too... its just that when they do kick up its a helluva lot more violent.
Get down there and tuck into an anchorage... a 2 or 3 day window will appear and you make your run...
If a Brit family of two adults and two toddlers could get round in a marine-ply catamaran... I think it was a Bobcat... back in the 70's then why are some many in stronger boats of superior design so scared to...
Methinks its more a lack of self confidence in ones abilities that's transferred (conveniently) to boat design and strength
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Old 29-11-2010, 10:42   #98
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Quote:
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Marketing boats like automobiles also goes a long way toward explaining this, I think. By illiciting a demand psychology for the 'latest model' you can increase turnover considerably.
That's quite right! they attract buyers by hitting on their visual aesthetics senses.
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Old 29-11-2010, 10:43   #99
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Methinks its more a lack of self confidence in ones abilities that's transferred (conveniently) to boat design and strength

well said Boatman!
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Old 29-11-2010, 11:41   #100
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That's quite right! they attract buyers by hitting on their visual aesthetics senses.
not mine.

euro styling has become about as commonplace and exciting as a Toyota Corolla.
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Old 29-11-2010, 12:00   #101
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but modern (efficient) mass production (which includes cutting corners in some areas) .
please Enumerate the cutting corners too, purely for academic purpose
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Old 29-11-2010, 12:11   #102
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please Enumerate the cutting corners too, purely for academic purpose
including but not limited to:

- undersized, poorly attached chainplates and/or other standing rigging.
- undersized and/or poor quality blocks and/or other running rigging
- no backing plates on stancions and/or deck hardware
- lack of external/internal handholds
- "gooped but not fastened" hull-to-deck joint
- minimum hull thickness
- undersized autopilot

admittedly all of these problems could be found in some of the vintage boats as well.

but, actually, most of my comment about "efficient" production techniques is meant as a compliment, not a criticism. Beneteau can build boats almost like Ford can build cars. That doesn't mean Beneteaus or Fords aren't well built.
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Old 29-11-2010, 12:12   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
including but not limited to:

- undersized, poorly attached chainplates and/or other standing rigging.
- undersized and/or poor quality blocks and/or other running rigging
- no backing plates on stancions and/or deck hardware
- lack of external/internal handholds
- "gooped but not fastened" hull-to-deck joint
- minimum hull thickness
- undersized autopilot

admittedly all of these problems could be found in some of the vintage boats as well.
The plot thickens :-)
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Old 29-11-2010, 12:14   #104
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Agree with Bruce Smith.

If Hunter and Beneteau (just to name two) were serious about cruising they would put handholds in their cabins. But they don't.
Where did you get that info..
Ours has more than enough if needed......over the nav station, both port and starboard, main salon, the gally, and points between..
Also, the faster you move forward, the less you move side to side..
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Old 29-11-2010, 12:17   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storyinframes View Post
So far there is no clear consensus as to what make constitutes a bluewater boat.
It is accepted that older boats like PSC, IP, SCs, Tayanas, Capedorys, etc are proven (slow) voyagers but these days many are crossing oceans in (fast)Beneteaus and Bavarias which the "purists" turn down completely.

but the fact is that most of the major bluewater boat manufacturers are out of business. WHY? except PSC and IP are there any other company producing blue water boats?

Modern Production boats which many believe will have real tough time if caught in Hurricane, or big waves at the capes. but their production is going smoothly. more such boats are being produced. HOW COME?

and by the way a lot of us do think that if I have that particular baot and if needed can my boat go round the cape?
also, Ta-Yang is still going strong. While the 37 is only a special order now (after selling more than 600 - a more than respectable run for any manufacturer), there are still lots of others in production:

TAYANA Yachts
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