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Old 24-08-2016, 13:18   #46
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Yes, if you try to hove to with your sails up. Try riding to a sea anchor, or attach a small triangular sail to the back stay. A lot of boats have hard times hove to, so other methods are employed. Or just drop your anchor over the bow with your sails down. In all three cases, you will find your bow will hold to the wind at about 20-30 degrees with your sails down. Now you are effectively stopped in the water.
I'll stick to my state: The boat is flawed when it comes to it's natural design of heaving to. All the little games you play with drogues or sea anchors or throwing other **** overboard or riding sails doesn't alter that fact. Play all the word games you want. I'll go further...

Bill Crealock is an over-rated, marketing hyped, Yacht Designer. Never trust a NA that covers his lips in a profile photo. You can tell he's a liar.
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Old 24-08-2016, 14:08   #47
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
What a surprising thread. People afraid of "big" boats trying to spread their fear around. Then the owners of small old boats trying to make the same old same old about how their boat is better than the big production boats. Just non reality based feral matter.
Man your smart..!!!
When are you getting your BIG boat.. anything over 30ft scares me shitless..
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Old 24-08-2016, 14:08   #48
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
What a surprising thread. People afraid of "big" boats trying to spread their fear around. Then the owners of small old boats trying to make the same old same old about how their boat is better than the big production boats. Just non reality based feral matter.
It's a well known FACT that the best boat to cross an ocean is 10 foot long.

Get with it boi!
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Old 24-08-2016, 14:18   #49
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
I'll stick to my state: The boat is flawed when it comes to it's natural design of heaving to. All the little games you play with drogues or sea anchors or throwing other **** overboard or riding sails doesn't alter that fact. Play all the word games you want. I'll go further...

Bill Crealock is an over-rated, marketing hyped, Yacht Designer. Never trust a NA that covers his lips in a profile photo. You can tell he's a liar.
Evidently not one to mince words. Kind of have similar notions about a lot of Sparkman and Stevens work.
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Old 24-08-2016, 15:20   #50
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

Older boats are not stronger then newer boats. Thicker yes but that does not equal stronger. That is an old wise tale. There is a ton of data to illustrate higher strength with newer fabrics, better resin to glass ratios, better resins, and better fabric handling. Not even including that fatigue is the biggest killer of laminates.

Designer and builders intended use would likely have a the biggest effect on scantlings chosen for given boat. Thick older hulls are unquestionably weaker. Do a little research and you will quickly realize how drastically different strength comparing old vs new laminates. It amazes me how often folks profess such blatantly wrong info.
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Old 24-08-2016, 15:26   #51
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by pskudlarski View Post
Hello, I keel following threads about ocean going possibilities of newer production boats and have a slightly different twist on the problem............Would 50 ft Beneteau be still less seaworthy than 38 Island Packet, Tayana or Tartan?
Back to the OP..... I think it all depends on the particular boat(s).

What I can say....

A few months ago I spent 8 days offshore in the South East Pacific on a Benny Oceanus 57.

I would not buy one for serious passage making in a purple fit.

Said to sail like a dream on a reach it was a dog to windward.
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Old 24-08-2016, 15:33   #52
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

Regarding boat size: I've owned from 20' up to 41',' and skippered 44' 48' and 55' boats. Bigger is certainly better but not without compromises.

The forces in the sheets of a bigger vessel go up by magnitudes - you can use machines to help, but small mistakes in a big boat are serious problems when compared to the forces present in the sheets of a small boat. Big boat is like single handing - it all can be done - but you must plan ahead and earn your skill through experience. There's also a lot more to clean, paint, rig. I was surprised by the massive increase in maintenance work from my 34' to 41' - only 7' more, but the deck has a lot more area, the hull has more beam, etc etc.

Regarding buying a "cheap" 50' versus a "quality" 40' boat: for me a quality boat means you can continue to maintain and modernize systems onboard over the decades. a cheap boat usually has an interior Pan that is cast in a mold then glued in to the hull before the deck is glued on top. fast and efficient, but once the systems (wiring, pumps, tanks, sumps, plumbing, keel bolts) start to get old you are faced with cutting through fiberglass pan to even try to diagnose a problem. A quality boat is built without a plastic pan, the interior bulkheads are tabbed to the hull, the furniture and sole is built not injection molded, and access is well planned. that's why certain boats can be 50 years old and still valuable, while a cheaper molded-pan boat is going to be a huge problem even if only 15 years old, and the cheap-material tank leaks, or the hydraulic lines running the furling motors leak, etc.

If you have a SawzAll and like fiberglass dust you can do anything, I guess.
But cruising is probably more about maintenance than it is about sailing through 50' seas and lee shores with pirates pursuing.

there is an aphorism, I think by Pardy: buy the smallest boat you can be comfortable in rather than the most expensive boat you can afford.
Be happy whatever you choose
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Old 25-08-2016, 03:40   #53
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
What a surprising thread. People afraid of "big" boats trying to spread their fear around. Then the owners of small old boats trying to make the same old same old about how their boat is better than the big production boats. Just non reality based feral matter.
I agree.

Here's the ultimate bluewater cruising boat according to the basement dwelling internet experts.

I think "non reality based fecal matter" would be a more appropriate description. ;-)
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Old 25-08-2016, 04:38   #54
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

Looks like this thread is going down the same path many of these best type cruising boat threads go which is that most support the type boat they actually own no matter where they plan on "cruising!"

Some have very small boats and cruise the big water while others have 40' plus boats and spend most of their time at the dock or cruising a lake or ICW.

That being said, looks like the OP has a Helms 24. Webb Chiles has a Moore 24 and has sailed it half way around the world.

It could be that more time should be spent sailing and learning your particular boat's capabilities rather than arguing boat type. One step at a time that is. Don't suddenly go crossing oceans.

Moore 24

MOORE 24 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Helms 24

HELMS 24 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
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Old 25-08-2016, 04:50   #55
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I agree.

Here's the ultimate bluewater cruising boat according to the basement dwelling internet experts.

I think "non reality based fecal matter" would be a more appropriate description. ;-)
Yeah..!! Fecal matter is flying for sure.. the bullshitters abound.. one is yet to sail anywhere.. others have expensive boats they like to wave around.. while basically coast hopping the Med or East coast/ICW.. ��
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Old 25-08-2016, 05:38   #56
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Yeah..!! Fecal matter is flying for sure.. the bullshitters abound.. one is yet to sail anywhere.. others have expensive boats they like to wave around.. while basically coast hopping the Med or East coast/ICW.. ��
And most on CF don't seem to even have a boat that goes anywhere at all.... Mostly dreamers on front of computer screens cruising the internet.
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Old 25-08-2016, 05:49   #57
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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And most on CF don't seem to even have a boat that goes anywhere at all.... Mostly dreamers on front of computer screens cruising the internet.
Damn.. you found me out..
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Old 25-08-2016, 05:58   #58
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

I don't care what boat other people have! I just wonder why some people make so much effort at convincing people their boat choice is best.
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Old 25-08-2016, 06:01   #59
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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I don't care what boat other people have! I just wonder why some people make so much effort at convincing people their boat choice is best.
I second this thought.
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Old 25-08-2016, 06:21   #60
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

I'm impressed about the quality of discussion here
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