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Old 23-08-2016, 21:55   #16
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Yes, as long as everything works perfectly thou it takes a bit more time with bigger boat do things. But just one mainsail car jammed at the wrong time can change situations much worse..
Simply not true. The problems are basically the same when they occur, but the larger the boat, the more forgiving.

Let me provide a good example:

If and when we suffer a complete engine failure in a situation wih no wind and a leward shore and dropping the anchor is not an option, our tender and outboard motor can be launched quickly and are large enough to lash to the side of the boat and become a tow boat or auxilary engine. We can also carry enough fuel for the outboard to do this for many miles. The smaller boat will most likely end up on the rocks.
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Old 23-08-2016, 22:28   #17
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Yes, as long as everything works perfectly thou it takes a bit more time with bigger boat do things. But just one mainsail car jammed at the wrong time can change situations much worse..
If you jam the headboard on any boat you have an issue. But it isn't substantially more difficult to deal with fixing it on a 55' versus a 40'.
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Old 23-08-2016, 22:42   #18
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Simply not true. The problems are basically the same when they occur, but the larger the boat, the more forgiving.

Let me provide a good example:

If and when we suffer a complete engine failure in a situation wih no wind and a leward shore and dropping the anchor is not an option, our tender and outboard motor can be launched quickly and are large enough to lash to the side of the boat and become a tow boat or auxilary engine. We can also carry enough fuel for the outboard to do this for many miles. The smaller boat will most likely end up on the rocks.
So will I having the tender in a dinghy bay. Even simpler just tilt the outboard down without launching and drive away or just scull which isn't much of an option with a big boat.
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Old 23-08-2016, 22:58   #19
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
If you jam the headboard on any boat you have an issue. But it isn't substantially more difficult to deal with fixing it on a 55' versus a 40'.
In some instances the fix must wait and the sail better come down. While it's possible for a single hander to force a smaller sail down a bigger sail needs more power. Downhaul and halyard winch at least..
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Old 23-08-2016, 23:16   #20
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

I take the size thing to be pretty insignificant in the scheme of things! If you really want to minimize risk, sure, a bigger boat for the reasons mentioned. But that's really a pretty small piece of the puzzle.

If you have a good boat that you know, whether it's big or small, it was designed to get you there. The rest is overwhelmingly up to you.

If you're on a budget and a smaller boat being cheaper will give you more time to roam once you leave the docks, then maybe you don't have to rush as much and can afford to make better choices along the way.

It all seems very relative to me.
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Old 23-08-2016, 23:21   #21
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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This hits all the nails on their heads.

Size is a tremendous benefit to safety. On top of being harder to capsize, faster, less likely to be swept with green water -- I am surprised no one has mentioned the most important factor of all, the fact that they are harder to fall off of. MOB is the main killer of sailors, so this is a really important benefit.

Unlike some, I have nothing against Beneteaus, but I would avoid the B50, which is pretty notorious for build quality problems, particularly, structural problems, including rudders. You'd be better off with other Bene (or Jenn) models around that size.
I agree about MOBs and the bigger freeboard issue. However, modifications can be made as seen in the photo (70lb dog in the cut out, 43' loa). I am a believer in the bigger older (70s-80s overbuilt f/g) boats being the safest. Bigger should enable keeping the crew more comfortable thus more able-bodied. A lot of the newer, large production boats I find though are not as safe due to their layouts (large cocktail cockpits and below can be too widespread; too focused on dockside wants). Mine here is kevlar epoxy - love having a bullet proof boat!
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Old 23-08-2016, 23:30   #22
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
In some instances the fix must wait and the sail better come down. While it's possible for a single hander to force a smaller sail down a bigger sail needs more power. Downhaul and halyard winch at least..
You forget one important thing, the larger boat has systems in place to prevent these issues which seem to concern you. We have hydraulic or electric furling, I push easy buttons. But in the unlikely event (which has happened twice) a sail needs to come down in a hurry manually, it can be done easily. Manual systems are also in place. So we have both, the smaller boat is likely only manual.

I know of several Swan 65 sloops being handled full time by just one or two people. There's also a fellow on this forum who single hands his Oyster 66.
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Old 24-08-2016, 03:34   #23
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

I don't think there is any doubt that a typical modern 50' boat of good quality is going to handle rough conditions at least as well as an old full keel 40' boat (yeah, you could come up with an extreme example but in general).


It appears you are proposing it primarily from a cost savings advantage on the initial purchase but remember, if you move up to a 50' boat, your ongoing costs are going to be on the order of 25-50% higher as many services are charged by the foot, hardware prices often increase exponentially, fuel consumption will be higher, etc....


I would decide if you really feel the need for an old style lead bomb or not and then start looking for boats of the style you choose and see if you can get one of a size that meets your other needs along with your budget.
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Old 24-08-2016, 03:58   #24
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Old 24-08-2016, 04:00   #25
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by Van Der Beek View Post
After the infamous Fastnet race in 79 they looked into this and concluded that boats around 40 feet had fared the best.
Actually, it was found that the more seaworthy boats fared the best. Even smaller boats like the Contessa 32 because of the way they were built. Bal/disp 47%, skeg rudder, etc...

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Old 24-08-2016, 04:32   #26
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

I have always heard and stand by that one should have a boat that they can handle alone. Meaning, if you need to have someone with you when sailing the boat may be too large.
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Old 24-08-2016, 04:43   #27
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pirate Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Simply not true. The problems are basically the same when they occur, but the larger the boat, the more forgiving.

Let me provide a good example:

If and when we suffer a complete engine failure in a situation wih no wind and a leward shore and dropping the anchor is not an option, our tender and outboard motor can be launched quickly and are large enough to lash to the side of the boat and become a tow boat or auxilary engine. We can also carry enough fuel for the outboard to do this for many miles. The smaller boat will most likely end up on the rocks.
Am curious...
How can one have a 'Lee Shore' when there's no wind..
Or.. is this a bit of 'Drama' thrown in..
Same thing works on smaller boats.. or in the case of a 21ft Corribee.. you row or scull..
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Old 24-08-2016, 05:12   #28
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Am curious...
How can one have a 'Lee Shore' when there's no wind..
Or.. is this a bit of 'Drama' thrown in..
Same thing works on smaller boats.. or in the case of a 21ft Corribee.. you row or scull..
OK... Drifting towards shore with little to no wind.
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Old 24-08-2016, 05:15   #29
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Re: Blue water yacht, size versus type

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Am curious...
How can one have a 'Lee Shore' when there's no wind..
Or.. is this a bit of 'Drama' thrown in..
Same thing works on smaller boats.. or in the case of a 21ft Corribee.. you row or scull..
That I can understand, like ocean swell and currents pushing to one direction. Some oldstyle salty without an engine loosed their boat that way thou don't remember which one. It's a long way to get past a big atoll..
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Old 24-08-2016, 05:24   #30
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That I can understand, like ocean swell and currents pushing to one direction. Some oldstyle salty without an engine loosed their boat that way thou don't remember which one. It's a long way to get past a big atoll..
Folks with engines end up on reefs and atolls.. that's just down to seamanship and making a bad choice..
Its a long way to get past N.Spain as well..
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