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Old 21-09-2011, 15:12   #1
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Blue Water Sailing Advice

Hey everyone - I need help deciding on blue water cruiser in the 40' range. The plan is to liveaboard in Newport, RI for approximately 1 year to shake her down in New England waters. Afterwards, my wife and I plan to circumnavigate generally following the east - west trade route (East Coast, Panama Canal, South Pacific...etc). We'll be in the tropics for most of the time.

I'm budgeting about $350k towards the purchase and re-outfit of the boat. I've setup the following filters to help limit the field:

- Excellent sailing performance (PHRF < 150)
- Comfort & Saftey at sea
- Capsize Ratio < 2.0
- Comfort Ratio > 30
- 2 Berths, large galley (we love to cook!)
- Holds value

Top 4 contenders are:

HR 39, Passport 40, Valiant 42, Norseman 400 Custom

Any thoughts on the boats? What else should I be looking with that budget in mind?

Thanks!
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Old 21-09-2011, 15:53   #2
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Pacific seacraft 40, sweet boats.
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Old 21-09-2011, 15:56   #3
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

They do not show excellent sailing performance.

b.
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Old 21-09-2011, 16:02   #4
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

For capsize issues, go see Sailing USA design website:

Sailboat Design and Stability

It's a gonna be hard to find a sailboat that won't capsize.
Comfort ratio was a new one on me - but looks like if your vessel has weight and can punch through and carry on with inertia, you are more comfortable.
If you get a boat at about $150K you can save the rest of the $350K and put it towards the cruising kitty, resale, or the kids' college fund.
I recommend a Baba, Panda or Toshiba 40, but then I'm rather partial towards them (comfort level of 40!, sometimes PHRF of 170 - but probably better going downhill - out the door cost loaded for cruising around $150K)...

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Old 21-09-2011, 16:24   #5
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Westsail 43

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Old 21-09-2011, 18:36   #6
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
They do not show excellent sailing performance.
With a PHRF of 147 - 150, they perform fine using the only criteria that matters.


If you have not already, I would also give a serious look at the Caliber 40.
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Old 21-09-2011, 19:00   #7
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Do you have any prior sailing experience?
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Old 21-09-2011, 19:10   #8
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

you need to SAIL the boats on your list before buying. sail all of em and sail them in many different conditions so you know if it will suit you. doesnt matter what we think. you have to live with the decision.isnt really easy to sell boats now and wont get better for a while.
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Old 21-09-2011, 19:44   #9
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

I would recommend a Sceptre 41 or 43 as well. I have one and think it is a great boat for two people. Fits more but it is really comfortable with two people. I am prejudiced since I own one.
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Old 21-09-2011, 20:23   #10
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Hi there

I have some bluewater experience having sailed from Victoria to New Zealand, Australisa to Vanautu and Hawaii to the west coast of Canada. On my way across the pacific I saw all sorts of boats from ones that looked ready to fall apart to spanking new 100 foot place yachts.

The point is that they all made the journey and they all survived the trip. There are lots of different boats that you can choose from. John Neils (?) has a list of about 40 boats that he believes are ready for long distance blue water cruising. I'm not sure where you can find it but it is probably worth looking for.

You will spend most of your time either on the hook or at the dock rather than at sea. Once we reached the Marquesas our longest passage between island groups was 4 days. So comfort is important. That said you will want to have a boat that has sea berths so that you can sleep comfortably at sea. The big beds are attractive but not so easly to sleep in when it gets rough.

Find a boat that the two of you can handle easily. Avoid swept back spreaders as most of your sailing will be down wind and you will destroy your sails on the spreaders.

Find a boat that you both feel safe in. You will run aground so make sure she is will built.

I could go on and on and on. Find boat that has done it and be prepared to spend at least a 1/3 of the cost of the boat refitting it for your trip. Talk to as many long distance cruisers as you can and visit their boat if at all possible.

Good luck.
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Old 21-09-2011, 20:49   #11
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I'd agree you should sail the boat in rough weather before you commit. I like your criteria and your picks. Bur one point-

I disagree with going for a fast, good sailor over comfort and manageability. If your wife or you cannot singlehand the boat, it is too much boat for crossing oceans inmho- if one of you is sick.. You gotta plan for it. Both of you need to be able to handle the sails by yourself in rough conditions and get yourself to the top of thei mast to fix stuff, etc.

Keep in mind Higher performance tall rigs and big sails are not often designed for two people especially in the 40 foot range!

I prefer a slower heavy boat maybe a little low in the sail area/displacement ratio for some, but I also like trail horses more than racehorses and jeep wranglers over sports cars,,,,

Some will say they like to outrun the weather- but fast moving storms and rogue waves are out there that can't be outrun, and stuff breaks alot.

I'd rather be in a heavy boat even if shes slow.
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Old 21-09-2011, 21:54   #12
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
you need to SAIL the boats on your list before buying. sail all of em and sail them in many different conditions so you know if it will suit you. doesnt matter what we think. you have to live with the decision.isnt really easy to sell boats now and wont get better for a while.
So how does one sail all the boats on one's list - if they are blue water boats they are unlikely to be available for charter and if one is new to the sailing life one doesn't have any connections to call upon. I suppose one could put out a call on CF to see if someone with a particular boat will take you for a sail. It would be tough trying to do that in 'all kinds of different conditions' though and still cost you a pretty bundle for airline tickets all over the continent.
It's a great idea but seriously, I can't see how a newcomer like myself could do this. ... and of course it assumes that one has enough experience to know what the boat is doing is normal or not.
This is actually a BIG stumbling block to me (and no, I do not have enough experience to tell a good boat from a not so good boat)
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Old 21-09-2011, 22:11   #13
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtembene View Post
Hi there

I have some bluewater experience having sailed from Victoria to New Zealand, Australisa to Vanautu and Hawaii to the west coast of Canada. On my way across the pacific I saw all sorts of boats from ones that looked ready to fall apart to spanking new 100 foot place yachts.

The point is that they all made the journey and they all survived the trip. There are lots of different boats that you can choose from. John Neils (?) has a list of about 40 boats that he believes are ready for long distance blue water cruising. I'm not sure where you can find it but it is probably worth looking for.

You will spend most of your time either on the hook or at the dock rather than at sea. Once we reached the Marquesas our longest passage between island groups was 4 days. So comfort is important. That said you will want to have a boat that has sea berths so that you can sleep comfortably at sea. The big beds are attractive but not so easly to sleep in when it gets rough.

Find a boat that the two of you can handle easily. Avoid swept back spreaders as most of your sailing will be down wind and you will destroy your sails on the spreaders.

Find a boat that you both feel safe in. You will run aground so make sure she is will built.

I could go on and on and on. Find boat that has done it and be prepared to spend at least a 1/3 of the cost of the boat refitting it for your trip. Talk to as many long distance cruisers as you can and visit their boat if at all possible.

Good luck.
The reason I asked about prior experience was to suggest chartering but obviously you know different boats. I think in the end it comes down to the vessel you fall in love with.
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Old 21-09-2011, 23:21   #14
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

I knew i wanted a Blue water boat so I ended up with an International Folkboat. She is so pretty that everyone wants to go out......so have made lot's of friends..... haha
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Old 21-09-2011, 23:26   #15
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

I juat found out myself that a lot of boats just don't feel great even when the wind is 15-25. I have found through sailing on many different types of boats that most of all I want a boat that is sea kindly. it seems like most peopl talk about many desires and wants without really understanding what that means. For me its all about a comfortably experience. Who cares about a 1/2 a knot faster. In an ideal world I would love to have an exact copy of my International Folkboat except that it be 32' in length with 5'-10" headroom. I have already started researching what might fit the bill.
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