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Old 22-09-2011, 17:33   #31
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

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Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
So how does one sail all the boats on one's list - if they are blue water boats they are unlikely to be available for charter and if one is new to the sailing life one doesn't have any connections to call upon. I suppose one could put out a call on CF to see if someone with a particular boat will take you for a sail. It would be tough trying to do that in 'all kinds of different conditions' though and still cost you a pretty bundle for airline tickets all over the continent.
It's a great idea but seriously, I can't see how a newcomer like myself could do this. ... and of course it assumes that one has enough experience to know what the boat is doing is normal or not.
This is actually a BIG stumbling block to me (and no, I do not have enough experience to tell a good boat from a not so good boat)
if the boat is comfortable, is good, if you are not comfortable in the boat, is not good. sail as many boats as you can with other people--there are yacht clubs, sailing clubs, sea trials with the broker, walk a dock and ask to sail with folks...... get as much time as possible-- the time will helpo you not be so new and will help you find what you do and do not like about the action of a boat.
if you find a passion while sailing one, go for that one-- if no passion, will merely be a dock queen, no matter how badly you wish to sail.
there is no normal with boats as all are different. do not just stick with your list--sail EVERYTHING you can sail. place no limits on your sailing experiences.
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Old 23-09-2011, 18:08   #32
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

I'm not an experienced blue water sailor, but I do sail alot, so take this for what it is worth.

When I first joined this forum I read one of those "what first boat should I buy" threads and one of the experienced mods said 33-38 feet. I think that was very good advice, although I'd go up to 40 ft. Not too big, not too small.
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Old 23-09-2011, 18:36   #33
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

the ta shing built passports are wonderful boats, but be aware as far as displacment/performance issues, my P47 was WAY heavier than advertised...
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Old 28-09-2011, 14:31   #34
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There is a place in Bellingham called Par that bareboat charters Valiant 40s.
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Old 28-09-2011, 21:04   #35
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

The Rich Worstel built Valiants are very well built indeed.

Also from Bob Perry and well made but much faster are the Nordic 40 and 44. The Nordic 44 is a good boat.

In your budget you have a lot of options. Personally, and I realize that this doesn't apply to everyone, I need sailing to be fun, that means a responsive boat that I want to sail, not motor.

Look for a boat with a comfy cockpit, you'll be spending a lot of time there. Make sure the wife has a good place to read out of the sun and spray. A good snug dodger is a thing of joy.

I would never own a boat without Dorades for ventilation. A stuffy boat is no fun, and encourages mildew.

Are you going to sit at a dock or anchor out? Sail overnight? A wide open cabin layout may look great at a boat show, but for sleeping underway a good single bunk with a lee cloth has it's allure. This should be aft of the mast, aligned with the centerline of the boat, not too wide, preferably low. The settee may work, but pilot berths (now out of style) keep the off watch out of the flow of the cabin. On my boat, the pilot berth is the most coveted real estate.

It's a great buyer's market. You should get a great boat. Don't skimp on the survey, look for something that is very well maintained and well equipped.

At the risk of seeming a traitor to this fine place, since you are considering a couple of Perry designs, you should know that he hangs around the Cruising Anarchy section of Sailing Anarchy, and is happy to talk about his boats. He's quite a chef and takes a lot of pride in his galley designs.
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Old 28-09-2011, 21:46   #36
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Re:"Top 50 Bluewater Cruisers".

I have an old Yachting World onboard (Maybe 2005?) where a whole lot of contributors voted for their favourite blue water cruisers. The cover was something like the "Top 50 Bluewater Cruisers". The Valiant came up as a classic. There is a full article comparing it to 2 other similar boats. All very practical and capable with lots of storage. If get a chance I will get the exact date of the mag for you. (I just like to keep up to these things just in case I ever get an opportunity to upgrade).

Nonetheless, the other makes got the odd mention.
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Old 29-09-2011, 00:27   #37
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Check out Bluewaterboats.org.
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Old 29-09-2011, 18:45   #38
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Exclamation Re: "Top 50 Bluewater Cruisers".

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Originally Posted by SurferShane View Post
I have an old Yachting World onboard (Maybe 2005?) where a whole lot of contributors voted for their favourite blue water cruisers. The cover was something like the "Top 50 Bluewater Cruisers".
Sorry I blew it; I went back to the boat and it was the Victoria 38 and Bowman 42 that the mag did a comparison on. The mag was also from 1998, not 2005.

Nonetheless, the canoe sterned Valiant 40 got an honorable mention! The rational for reading such old stuff is that they might now be half forgotten and affordable.
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Old 30-09-2011, 00:24   #39
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

The OP seems to have gone, but I will post anyway

If serious performance is what you are after in a 40 foot boat, then here it is. I asked Bob Perry himself an he says this boat is very strong and will handle blue water cruising just fine. I wish I had 150K plus another 50K to kit it out for cruising.

2000 Perry Schooner Creek Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Schooner Creek Boat Works - Amati

This is a small boat for 40 foot. If money was no object I would love a 45 foot version so it would have similar interior space to a 40foot plastic fantastic.
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Old 30-09-2011, 00:45   #40
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

Have you looked at http://www.bluewaterboats.org yet? Great resource.
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Old 30-09-2011, 01:04   #41
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

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The OP seems to have gone, but I will post anyway

If serious performance is what you are after in a 40 foot boat, then here it is. I asked Bob Perry himself an he says this boat is very strong and will handle blue water cruising just fine. I wish I had 150K plus another 50K to kit it out for cruising.

2000 Perry Schooner Creek Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Schooner Creek Boat Works - Amati

This is a small boat for 40 foot. If money was no object I would love a 45 foot version so it would have similar interior space to a 40foot plastic fantastic.
I gotta admit I am still a sucker for the "classics" . Now how's this one for a cruising man's cruiser? Biggest problem I reckon about buying the thing is that you would feel like you stole someone else's identity!

Ta Chiao CT 54 Cutter rigged Ketch 1980 Robert Perry & Ted Hood Ta Chiao Taiwan. Yacht for sale from classic yacht broker..
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Old 30-09-2011, 05:43   #42
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

I like classics too, but this thread is (well at least was) about a racing mans 40 foot cruiser, not a cruising mans cruiser Amati certainly has been highly customized for its original owner, but for me the "stolen identity" factor would not be an issue since the uniqueness would be a positive compared to the uniqueness of a production build. The 50K you would need to spend to make it a true cruiser would make it fairly customized for yourself too in the end. That 54 footer is one nice boat though!
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Old 30-09-2011, 06:33   #43
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

For what is worth. We have been circumnavigating east to west for 6 years. We started in the Caribbean and are now in the Med. We have a number of friends who are circumnavigating in 38-40' boats. They all say the same thing...they wish they had gotten a bigger boat.

Most people are not in a race while circumnavigating, and rigging to win a race is just not done by anyone we know. You will get a lot more speed and comfort by going bigger. There are some 50+- boats within your budget.

You will find that you will be carrying a lot more weight than you ever imagined that you would. Don't argue with this...it is a fact of life...you will need lots of storage room and capacity.

I am not going to recommend a model of boat because after 6 years in several oceans and many seas in all kinds of weather, I am way too prejudiced. However, if you do not consider "bigger" before you start, keep in contact because I want to know when you change your mind...you will change your mind.

Before you start on your east-west journey you should decide what you are going to do about the fact that Somalie pirates control most of the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden. Based on how they took over the Indian Ocean, they will likely control most of the passages to South Africa within 1-2 years.

If we were starting out today from the Caribbean, we would go east - west through the Panama Canal to New Zealand, then turn back to French Polynesia, then to Hawaii, then to the US, then to Mexico and Central America and back through the Panama Canal. Then we would go up the US coast then to the Med, returning eventually to the Caribbean. Frankly, you miss none of the good stuff and you do miss all of the bad stuff...think about this...seriously!

Hope this helps,

Bill
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Old 30-09-2011, 06:44   #44
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

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Originally Posted by dennisail View Post
The OP seems to have gone, but I will post anyway

If serious performance is what you are after in a 40 foot boat, then here it is.(...)
Now that the OP is gone ;-) I will dare and post my take on serious performance cruising boat in her 40'ties:

Pogo

Archambault A40RC yacht

Cheers,
barnie
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Old 30-09-2011, 16:32   #45
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Re: Blue Water Sailing Advice

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So how does one sail all the boats on one's list - if they are blue water boats they are unlikely to be available for charter and if one is new to the sailing life one doesn't have any connections to call upon. I suppose one could put out a call on CF to see if someone with a particular boat will take you for a sail. It would be tough trying to do that in 'all kinds of different conditions' though and still cost you a pretty bundle for airline tickets all over the continent.
It's a great idea but seriously, I can't see how a newcomer like myself could do this. ... and of course it assumes that one has enough experience to know what the boat is doing is normal or not.
This is actually a BIG stumbling block to me (and no, I do not have enough experience to tell a good boat from a not so good boat)
If you're looking for a performance cruiser then odds are that someone, somewhere is racing it beer can style. It's not difficult to get invited aboard, they can always use more meat.

Seriously though, here's a good prescription for getting one off (and regular) spots with the racing folks... For the first one, just hang out down at the marina and ask a bunch of folks if you can tag along. Be clean cut, well dressed (in ***non-marking shoes*** and have gloves), and polite. Someone is *always* shorthanded around here. Then, offer to grind the winch during the starting tacks. Once you get the handle, go as hard as you can every time. Guaranteed invite back. If you're willing to bust your tail, word gets around. Make sure you stay and help clean up. There's a real lack of blue collar work ethic in the yachting crowd , but it's really appreciated. The harder you work, the more invites you seem to get, and the better the boats you get them are.

The upside to this is you get to sail on lots of different boats with people who can really make them sing. The learning opportunities are endless, for nothing more invested than sweat and time. Plus, you'll end up on boats that aren't on your list but should be. At the very least you'll start to identify certain features you really like, dislike, or must add to whatever boat you get.

We have a saying at work that goes something like, "No one who's been here longer than you should ever be working harder than you." If you apply that ideal with the more serious can racers, you'll go far.

JRM
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