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Old 20-03-2013, 11:54   #31
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Re: Blue water jib sail size

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I think SoPac asks for a big light sail and I think you cannot have a big light genoa that will work fine when the wind pipes up.

My alternatives would be:
- get a smaller (way smaller than 150), relatively strong and flat genoa on the furler.
- plus get a lighter kite style nylon to fly free, (straight luff),

OR

- get a light 150 genoa on the outer furler,
- get a smaller hanked jib for the inner forestay,

b.
Can you do this with a cutter? I am new to them, my previous boat was a sloop with a solent (with a roller jib and two smaller hanked on sails).

Is it reasonable with a cutter to have a big, deep, light jib for low winds, and then a heavier staysail that takes over once the jib is out of it's range? Or is a staysail too small to drive the boat when there's too much wind for a big light air jib?

I don't want to have a gap in my sail configuration where there's too much wind for a light jib but not enough for the staysail, especially if that gap leaves us underpowered in very common wind (say, 20 knots apparent).

This may be a fuzzy question to answer in general terms (though if it helps, my boat is 48' with a conservative SA/D). I'm just trying to figure out a lazy, non spinnaker, sail configuration for a cutter that won't leave us underpowered in a range from 5-30 knots apparent. I guess that's what everyone wants.
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Old 20-03-2013, 14:35   #32
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In my experiance with cutters. The staysail is usually too small to make a large light genoa style sail work well.

You normally need to at least keep a corner of the genoa out to keep the rig powered up. And if it is a light weather sail it gets pretty ugly.

The staysail really works well on it's own in say +30 knots and in about the 20-30knot range things can get awkward if you just have just the big light genoa/heavy staysail.

A good combo I sailed with on a 64 footer was a big light genoa on a furler on a short bowsprit. Then a small strong yankee also on a furler set back a few feet on the stem. The staysail was hank on.

Sounds like a cool boat.
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Old 20-03-2013, 17:57   #33
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Re: Blue water jib sail size

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Originally Posted by msponer View Post
(...) I don't want to have a gap in my sail configuration where there's too much wind for a light jib but not enough for the staysail, especially if that gap leaves us underpowered in very common wind (say, 20 knots apparent).

This may be a fuzzy question to answer in general terms (though if it helps, my boat is 48' with a conservative SA/D). I'm just trying to figure out a lazy, non spinnaker, sail configuration for a cutter that won't leave us underpowered in a range from 5-30 knots apparent. I guess that's what everyone wants.
As you noted, is is a fuzzy matter.

If it is SoPac, if it were my boat (again) I would avoid large AND overweight genoas like hell. Our genoa was 140% (maybe 150%) and the 'cruising weight' (buhahaha - read grossly overweight for SoPac dominant contitions) genoa was pretty useless. I simply do not believe in big AND heavy sails. I cut that sail down to 120% and only then it became usable (sloop here, masthead rig).

I think 5 knots apparent is where the donkey kicks in. At 10 apparent you are still under light sails upwind and very light sails (possibly kite style) downwind. At 15 you may be fully powered upwind but you will still be under light canvas downwind. Etc..

I think cutter rig makes the whole thing actually more complicated in light, predominantly downwind SoPac conditions. Downwind, your main source of drive is the main, which may be just too small on a proper cutter. Hence need for (IMHO) a kite (if you are lazy, you want a furl'able deep gennaker). A big light genoa can be set its luff along the mast and poled out with some sort of a spar (note a regular spinaker pole will be way too short). A huge light staysail could be an answer but note most staysails are just the contrary - small and heavy. Beaver.

So to say, a SoPac sail choice is way away from a typical cutter rig sail choice used in latitudes where our expeditions may encounter all sorts of winds from all directions. That's where cutter rig got invented. But the English Channel and the SoPac are completely different sailing arenas. Polynesians did not invent cutter rigs and there was a reason why.

But as you have noticed the fuzziness of the whole thing, I am sure you will find THE answers for your specific rig/boat. Seeing the whole thing is the beginning of finding the way.

All the best,
b.
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Old 20-03-2013, 18:45   #34
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Re: Blue water jib sail size

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Originally Posted by msponer View Post
My previous boat was a sloop with a solent (with a roller jib and two smaller hanked on sails).
Maybe something similar to this might work well, A heavy 100% roller yankee, with a removable solent stay for a lightweight 110-120% drifter.



It works well downwind to pole out the yankee to windward and run the drifter to leeward set of the mainboom, you can drop the main or leave it up depending on the angle and windspeed.

Make up a good strong deck bag to stow the the drifter.

Here is a pic of the other 64 foot schooner with the twin furlers forward. We were a couple of hundred miles out of Pueto Mont, chile after sailing from across from Tasmania when we launched the zodiac to get these shots. This setup was great, only proplem was windage forward.

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