Blue Water

[FV Black Pearl]

Might be a dumb question... what sea state is "Blue Water". When looking for a "Blue Water" boat hull thickness I assume would be a consideration along with rigging strength....what else would a blue water boat need?

[barnakiel]

Good question. Got me thinking.

I will wait and see what others say.

b.

[Auspicious]

I equate bluewater with offshore. Others may have different definitions. For me offshore is venturing beyond good weather forecasts - four days. That means being prepared for what might happen and not just what will happen.

Most of us sail in SS3 and SS4. SS4 is a big window. The bottom is pretty benign. If the period is short the top is pretty unpleasant.

"When in doubt, go out." Deep water means longer periods. A bluewater sailor is more important than an offshore boat, whatever that really means.

Look at the crews who show up at places like Horta, St Lucia, Hawai'i, and landfalls in the South Pacific. Comfort means a lot. Compare the boats of the ones who are rested with those who look like they just came out of wringer.

[Sailmonkey]

Blue water isn't a sea state, it's a distance from shore where the water turns from brown or green to a deep blue color.

[markwesti]

Here is a good list Sailboat Reviews of Offshore Cruising Yachts : Bluewaterboats.org What are your plans/thoughts ?

[Kenomac]

Being able to picture yourself sailing your boat comfortably in these conditions when the time comes.

If you look at a boat, it's hardware, handholds, accomodations etc and think to yourself.... well, maybe not. Then it's not a blue water boat.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cXdUBetUclA

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by markwesti

Here is a good list Sailboat Reviews of Offshore Cruising Yachts : Bluewaterboats.org What are your plans/thoughts ?

If you want a list I think John and Amanda Neal's list is better.

I agree that things like handholds are critical. One of my most miserable deliveries was on a Lagoon 420. $15k of work - mostly handholds but some other things as well - would make that dock queen a decent offshore boat. Without that relatively minor investment it was just a platform for floating cocktail parties.

Oh yeah - maintenance is important.

[Benz]

"Boat hull thickness" is a meaningless metric, since so many other variables matter. For steel, 1/4" is huge, for wood, not so much. For foam-core/epoxy, the outer skin can be far thinner than solid layup polyester and glass. If you want a hull that's an inch thick, we must ask: an inch of what?
There are many ways to build a boat that will be "Blue Water," and many more considerations than hull material or rigging strength. There's a lot of information out there for digestion, and lots of contradicting opinions. I'm sorry there's no quick and easy answer, but do keep asking questions, and as your questions get more specific, there will be more specific answers. But don't expect a complete concensus on what is the best or even a suitable boat for blue water--that decision will in the end be up to you.
Ben
zartmancruising dot com
PS search the forum, also--this gets flogged to death every few months.

[Glenn.Brooks]

One interesting thing to me is to look at the boats that have been entered in the single handed Transpac, Transpac, and Vic Maui Races over the years. These boat lists will give you a good idea of what constitutes a proven "blue water" sailboat, versus a coastal cruiser.

BTW, Blue water is often a function of how much sunlight you have, e.g. The tropics. I hardly ever saw blue water commercial fishing in Alaska. Most green and grey, except for a few bright summer days in areas with no glacial runoff from the shoreline.

[crankysailor]

Kenomac, what windforce would that video be? 9? I think your premise is not quite correct.. There are many well known blue water boats under 60ft and I wouldn't want to be on any of them in these conditions [emoji51]

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Kenomac, what windforce would that video be? 9? I think your premise is not quite correct.. There are many well known blue water boats under 60ft and I wouldn't want to be on any of them in these conditions [emoji51]

I don't know Force 9, Force 10? It doesn't really matter does it? If you happen to be in the way of Mother Nature when poop happens... I suppose being on a "blue water boat" would be preferred to being on something else.

You decide...

[JPA Cate]

FV Black Pearl,

I think the term "blue water sailboat" has no universally agreed upon definition, and that is why you'll be reading many conflicting opinions as to what it is.

The concept seems to me to indicate a boat that will take good care of her well prepared occupants, in any reasonable weather she encounters. [One doesn't go out into hurricanes on purpose.] To me, this leaves many brands out of the running, but my ideas are somewhat old fashioned, because I've grown old sailing, most years with two offshore passages, and I have that conservative personality that likes to stay with what works well.

if you own an offshore fishing vessel, you've worked out there in weather that most cruising sailors wouldn't attempt. You'll have learned respect for the sea, and have stored knowledge of it. If you learned to nurse your boat through bad weather already, you will know how to do it with a sailboat.

To learn what to avoid, read the long CF thread on the Cheeki Rafiki, and the shorter one about Blue Pearl. There's also a thread about a keel repair on a Waukiez, that is informative. [Use the CF Google Custom Search function under the Search button.] Then look at the Bestevaer 49 thread. IMHO, all the liner built boats can be difficult and/or to cope with after something has gone wrong, as well as for installing things you need, but many are out there on the market, and you've no real way of determining unseen damage. Boas designed and built with the intention of cruising in high latitudes, will be "blue water " boats.

Things to look for, cosy spaces, with hand holds, or finger rails to help you move around below decks, berths out of which you cannot be tipped and then fall across the cabin, ACCESS to everything that works, that might need inspection or repair, and on top of it being able to keep you safe, it's nice if it sails well, because that will give you pleasure.

Ann

[FV Black Pearl]

Thanks for the replies, A lot of reading to get to...
Ive had boats since I was 16, driving them before that. Practically all my experience has been in lakes, some large... but not ocean rough. Santee Cooper gets pretty rough but not in comparison. I am semi retired doing only contract work couple months a year so I want out of this house and get on with life! I started dreaming while in my 20s about retiring and taking a motorhome to all the Nascar tracks and see America, But as I grew older I bought a motorhome and went to race tracks, lakes, motorcycle rallies....you name it, so it fell off the retirement list. Then I thought...Ill buy a place at the lake and retire there....but before retiring I bought a place and spent a good part of 7 yrs there weekends and holidays....but Im land locked...I feel trapped. I want to get on the big pond. Ive only been sailing once, never sailed myself. If and when I buy sailboat I will sign up for lessons. I say if and when because several years ago when I decided to go in this direction I just assumed I would buy a trawler....I know power boats so it made sense. That brings me to the big question...What do I want to do with the boat? I want to buy it in close to "turn key" shape...I know practically nothing is turn key.... I want/plan to put it at boatyard or marina while I prepare boat and if sailboat (get lessons) play around local until Im more comfortable with the boat and then start working my way south from NC. eventually crossing to bahamas and continue the Caribbean for ? years....but then what? my only option would be to sail "Blue Water" and if I didn't buy a BW boat then Im land locked again... Im 53 yrs old plan to spend around $100,000 on boat I can go up a little but that digs in to cruising kitty so Id like to get in for that...expecting to do some work and spend more money before taking off.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I don't know Force 9, Force 10? It doesn't really matter does it?

I don't believe F9 or F10. Certainly not 55 kts sustained - gusts maybe. There isn't enough spray.

[FV Black Pearl]

Markwesti, I looked at link, very surprising.... I would have thought a blue water boat would be at least 35 feet, they are mostly smaller than that. I also was told by broker(agent) once not to buy the Gemini 105... but its listed there. I didn't see a Hunter in list heard many things about them...alot unfavorable.

JPA Cate....I couldn't find the post you mentioned, I did a search but nothing from that in tittle or author....so not sure which post.

I have been deep sea fishing many times, some good weather some bad. Im not unsure about moving to the sea, Im not unsure about staying on the boat for months at the time. My uncertainty comes from buying the right boat. Trawlers are limited in distance, motor running all day long...I leaning away from that. A hunter or other production boat would be (to me) limited same as trawler. Thats why I feel I need a blue water boat...Im not headed straight out to sea but I see it in my future. I don't see selling this one and buying another in 5-10 yrs.