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Old 16-06-2011, 17:33   #31
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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Originally Posted by sepeteus View Post
Here are the photos! Any further ideas?
Bad news Sepetaus. I would get rid of the boat before you have to pour any more money into it. I will kindly take it off your hands for less than $100k. When I get it back to Geelong will grind out the pores with a little die grinder. wash with acetone and cover the area inside and out with a sheet of plastic and vacume bag the area. (have a look at seabreeze for techniques for vacume bag repairing windsurfers, etc) This will dry the area thoroughly, same technique is used to suck water out of damaged foam boards. Then I will fill and seal with epoxy making sure that the edges of the through hull holes are thoroughly sealed. Install new through hulls. I did much the same with my Noelex 30 when I stripped off the antifouling and re barrier coated it 12 years ago only mistake I made was to fill pores with polyester bodyfiller which has a talc filler which absorbs water, should have used epoxy (even with microballoons is better).
If you choose to keep the boat I wont be offended!!!!
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Old 16-06-2011, 17:39   #32
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Originally Posted by frant

Bad news Sepetaus. I would get rid of the boat before you have to pour any more money into it. I will kindly take it off your hands for less than $100k. When I get it back to Geelong will grind out the pores with a little die grinder. wash with acetone and cover the area inside and out with a sheet of plastic and vacume bag the area. (have a look at seabreeze for techniques for vacume bag repairing windsurfers, etc) This will dry the area thoroughly, same technique is used to suck water out of damaged foam boards. Then I will fill and seal with epoxy making sure that the edges of the through hull holes are thoroughly sealed. Install new through hulls. I did much the same with my Noelex 30 when I stripped off the antifouling and re barrier coated it 12 years ago only mistake I made was to fill pores with polyester bodyfiller which has a talc filler which absorbs water, should have used epoxy (even with microballoons is better).
If you choose to keep the boat I wont be offended!!!!
Heh heh, after the first words I read, shitted myself! Thanks for the advice and I will keep it :-)
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Old 17-06-2011, 12:11   #33
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

Do what 90% of everyone else does - grind down, fill and antifoul - and keep schtum. If it starts getting a lot worse, then it's time to sell.......after a new coat of antifouling.
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Old 17-06-2011, 14:41   #34
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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Do what 90% of everyone else does - grind down, fill and antifoul - and keep schtum. If it starts getting a lot worse, then it's time to sell.......after a new coat of antifouling.
Flippant advice is often best ignored. Fix it properly for your own safety and others. Given public nature of this debate you could find yourself liable if you were to sell and not disclose imagine heart ache if you sell and later hear of disaster then find yourself in jail for contributory negligence!
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Old 17-06-2011, 18:07   #35
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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Flippant advice is often best ignored. Fix it properly for your own safety and others.
We are not talking about the keel being held on only by paperclips - just a few pimples on her arse .

Appreciate that you being in the Osmosis cure business have an interest in peddling scare stories and Woo based cures - but back in the real world, a patch and paint is more often than not the "answer". Whether the boat would then last another 30 years being something to worry about later. odds on by someone else In any event, by then a touch of Osmosis will probably be the least of her worries on the seaworthiness front.


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Given public nature of this debate you could find yourself liable if you were to sell and not disclose imagine heart ache if you sell and later hear of disaster then find yourself in jail for contributory negligence!
I think you are living in the realms of legal fantasy. Either that or have watched too much CSI
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Old 17-06-2011, 19:27   #36
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Do what 90% of everyone else does - grind down, fill and antifoul - and keep schtum. If it starts getting a lot worse, then it's time to sell.......after a new coat of antifouling.
Which on the west side of the Atlantic is exactly what is done 99% of the time.
- - The only variation is if you are intending to keep the boat for a long, long time. Then you do the above, but if they come back or you get a new batch the next time you haul, then you do a gelcoat peal, barrier coat and then paint.
- - There is no liability problems on this side of the Atlantic as used boats are sold "As Is, Where Is" with specifically no warranties of any kind. Any defects need to be discovered by you or your surveyor prior to closing on the boat.
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Old 18-06-2011, 01:21   #37
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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We are not talking about the keel being held on only by paperclips - just a few pimples on her arse .
And that's the difference between someone who knows what they are talking about and someone who doesn't! indeed we are not talking about the keel - and if you read my earlier posts you will see that I suggested given the local nature and number of blisters involved that they should simply be sanded down and antifouled over with the hull watched for further signs over the next couple of seasons. On seeing the photos however and as a professional in this field (no I'm not in the cure business I'm a surveyor) I would advise any client to get this properly fixed because there's a very real possibility that this area's been weakened structurally given the number of skin fittings in the area and the osmosis. These skin fittings are below the waterline - and would make a largish hole if they were to fail that would sink the boat quite quickly. In terms of legal fantasy - it's legal reality these days for owners and professionals in the business.

Appreciate that you being in the Osmosis cure business have an interest in peddling scare stories and Woo based cures - but back in the real world, a patch and paint is more often than not the "answer". Not sure what you are saying really because I think that is exactly what I have suggested is done but that it be done properly! Whether the boat would then last another 30 years being something to worry about later. odds on by someone else In any event, by then a touch of Osmosis will probably be the least of her worries on the seaworthiness front Indeed the greatest worry here is the security of these skin fittings which could quite feasibly fail and sink the yacht..

I think you are living in the realms of legal fantasy. Either that or have watched too much CSI
don't know what CSI is and don't watch TV but do spend my time reading about court cases revolving around subjects just like this.
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Old 18-06-2011, 03:18   #38
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

We are probably not that far apart on a "fix" - just trying to convey to OP (etc) that real world answers not always the same as folk say they are..........

FWIW - looking at those photos again, and given that they are all around fittings my guess (a guess until the angle grinder comes out ) is that it's likely a cored hull (and due to poor workmanship / design) that the same defect has occurred (sealing failed) and allowed water ingress into the core - and that the bubbles / osmosis come from the outer skin being sat on wet.

Of course I could be wrong (E & O E ).
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Old 18-06-2011, 04:23   #39
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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Originally Posted by buchananD View Post
Flippant advice is often best ignored. Fix it properly for your own safety and others. Given public nature of this debate you could find yourself liable if you were to sell and not disclose imagine heart ache if you sell and later hear of disaster then find yourself in jail for contributory negligence!
Since when has a private seller ever been liable after the sale for the condition of goods.

The advice to simply grind out and cover with antifouling paint also gives me cause for concern and I certainly wouldn't follow it. I think Nick and David have the answer, grind it out, dry and fill with thinkened epoxy. Re-seating the through hulls with sikaflex so water isn't absorbed again.

Pete
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Old 18-06-2011, 06:31   #40
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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Since when has a private seller ever been liable after the sale for the condition of goods.
Dunno about the US but often an undisclosed hidden defect known to the seller is legal reason to sue.

ciao!
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Old 19-06-2011, 03:52   #41
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

These are the affected areas after grinding. I think my baby has no osmosis. Really looked like it was just poor workmanship at Beneteau!
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Old 19-06-2011, 04:03   #42
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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Originally Posted by sepeteus View Post
These are the affected areas after grinding. I think my baby has no osmosis. Really looked like it was just poor workmanship at Beneteau!
What a releaf that must be
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Old 19-06-2011, 07:08   #43
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

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These are the affected areas after grinding. I think my baby has no osmosis. Really looked like it was just poor workmanship at Beneteau!
You can see the fiberglass mat (or chopper gun spray) now (with the fibers in random directions). This mat is still not considered part of the structural laminate. It is added to prevent print-through from bulkheads etc. into the gelcoat.

ciao!
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Old 20-06-2011, 00:22   #44
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Re: Blisters !!!!! Is it Osmosis ??????

Yeah, I've worked on lots of Beneteau's and they always have some shoddy chop matt work. I've seen some extreme examples. When you're using a chopper gun it can be difficult to keep up for the air rollers, and sometimes they are putting material on so thick they cant even see the air bubbles down near the bottom of the lam. Most production chopper guns are external mix, which means the gun is spraying resin out of one nozzle and catalyst out of another, mixing them as they atomize in the air. This keeps you from having to worry about resin going off in the rig, but it makes reliable accurate catalyzation a problem. Sometimes when the gun is running low on resin but not MEKP, the mix gets off and you end up shooting resin that is way too hot. Then the air rollers can't keep up because the lam is kicking too quick and you end up with wierd spots like that. The opposite can happen too, if you run out of MEKP and it's sputtering but you dont notice right away. Then you have under-catalyzed resin and a different problem. I believe most Beneteau are made in FL. They must have temp. control but I'm guessing it's still a hot environment. That cant help.
Having used chopper guns a lot I wouldn't own a boat with a lot of chop matt in it myself. There are much lighter, more efficient ways to develop panel stiffness, like a decent core material. The fact that chopper guns suck is part of why SCRIMP is so popular with reputable builders these days. In my opinion the chopper gun should be relegated to the tooling department only. Unless you're building Bayliners, then it doesn't matter...
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Old 21-12-2011, 16:06   #45
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Hi all!
Sepeteus! Can you let me know if your repair work to the blisters around the seacocks has proved to be successful.
I have just purchased a beneteau 47.7 and soda blastered the bottom and revealed exactly what you have shown in your pix. Have you just ground back and filled? And was it successful?
Thanks
Nick
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