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Old 25-11-2008, 22:55   #76
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That sure is the truth Badsanta. There are plenty of boats that will never get off the dock so what difference does it make if it is a big or small boat...as long as they are out there living the cruising life they have my respect regardless of the size of there boat.
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Old 25-11-2008, 23:18   #77
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Only your freedom when the house sells.

Cool!!
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Old 26-11-2008, 08:09   #78
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Let’s keep the inflammatory politics & ad hominems out of this boat-choice thread!

Inflammatory statements and personal attacks are two of the most common causes of conflict escalation.
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Old 26-11-2008, 09:44   #79
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....2. "More comfortable until something breaks"
Have you ever tried getting into the engine compartment of a 28 footer? I don't know that hiring a full time Midget mechanic is cheaper than havign a little more space to work..

Another one of my reasons for wanting a slightly larger boat is the capacity to have a workshop and carry the nececsary spare parts to do any repairs.

Again, my thinking is that it might be more to maintain, but at least you can carry the tools you need without having the waterline at the portholes.

....
Well, on my 26-foot pocket cruiser, there was no need to ever enter the engine compartment. Every part of it could be reached and serviced without having to enter the compartment. When it did fail, beyond my ability to fix it, there was no need to hire a midget. I simply went on with my cruise, under sail for the next three weeks. Being small, it was simple to sail, drop anchor, pull up the anchor by hand all on my own. One night I realized I was anchored in a bit too close (shallow). No problem. I just jumped in, picked up the anchor and carried it out to deeper water.

Even on a small boat, I had what I needed to deal with most maintenance and repair issues underway and rebedded serveral windows, made a new anchor light, made a roll stabalizer, boarding ladder, etc. Of course, with a small simple, boat there was less to go wrong and I needed to carry less in the way of spare parts and tools. Even so, I easily carried way more than I needed. (Anchor light was made using a plastic jar, with a spare running light bulb suspended between to wire leeds.)

I think one needs to be warry of the argument that larger boats are necessarily safer or more seaworthy. There are many factors at play including design, rigging, knowledge and forces on the boat. As a boat increases in size, the forces on it increase, requiring more people and/or more fancy gear to get tasks accomplished, gear which needs to be maintained and can fail.

The Pardey's have recounted in one of their books and in articles an unexpected storm (in Baja I beleive) in which most smaller boats eneded up being fine, but a large proportion of the larger boats ended up with serious damage. The big difference was that it was easier and faster to get the anchor up, sails up, reefed, etc. with a smaller boat.

I'm not trying to talk you out of a larger boat if that is your desire. You need to buy the boat that is the right size for you your intended use, and your finances, not what's right for anyone else. However, I do think you need to take a realistic look at some of the negatives that come with larger vessels.
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Old 26-11-2008, 10:08   #80
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Well, on my 26-foot pocket cruiser, there was no need to ever enter the engine compartment. Every part of it could be reached and serviced without having to enter the compartment. When it did fail, beyond my ability to fix it, there was no need to hire a midget. I simply went on with my cruise, under sail for the next three weeks. Being small, it was simple to sail, drop anchor, pull up the anchor by hand all on my own. One night I realized I was anchored in a bit too close (shallow). No problem. I just jumped in, picked up the anchor and carried it out to deeper water.

Even on a small boat, I had what I needed to deal with most maintenance and repair issues underway and rebedded serveral windows, made a new anchor light, made a roll stabalizer, boarding ladder, etc. Of course, with a small simple, boat there was less to go wrong and I needed to carry less in the way of spare parts and tools. Even so, I easily carried way more than I needed. (Anchor light was made using a plastic jar, with a spare running light bulb suspended between to wire leeds.)

I think one needs to be warry of the argument that larger boats are necessarily safer or more seaworthy. There are many factors at play including design, rigging, knowledge and forces on the boat. As a boat increases in size, the forces on it increase, requiring more people and/or more fancy gear to get tasks accomplished, gear which needs to be maintained and can fail.

The Pardey's have recounted in one of their books and in articles an unexpected storm (in Baja I beleive) in which most smaller boats eneded up being fine, but a large proportion of the larger boats ended up with serious damage. The big difference was that it was easier and faster to get the anchor up, sails up, reefed, etc. with a smaller boat.

I'm not trying to talk you out of a larger boat if that is your desire. You need to buy the boat that is the right size for you your intended use, and your finances, not what's right for anyone else. However, I do think you need to take a realistic look at some of the negatives that come with larger vessels.
Very well said and I will agree...But I dont want to leave these guys behind ..
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Old 26-11-2008, 10:50   #81
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Aloha Gord,
Thank you. I hope that also applies to condescending remarks.
Kind regards,
JohnL
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Old 26-11-2008, 11:15   #82
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Boat size is a function of money, number of people on board, personal preference, cruising grounds, duration of cruise, and lots of other things I can't even think of right now.

But at rock bottom, I think the biggest factor is the owner's concept. If the concept at play is that the boat is to a house substitute, then the impulse is to go as big as feasible. If the concept at play is a tent substitute for camping on the water, then the boat will be small. If the concept is a substitute rustic cabin in the woods, then the boat will be medium sized.

People have different motivations to be on the water. Ergo, they have different boat sizes. From the concept at play, all the rationalizations flow after the fact.

At least, that's my theory.
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Old 26-11-2008, 13:39   #83
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At least, that's my theory.

Works for me.....
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Old 26-11-2008, 14:30   #84
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Works for me.....
It Works for me too.

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Old 26-11-2008, 15:00   #85
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It Works for me too.

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Old 26-11-2008, 16:09   #86
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I'm not going to the effort of deleting troublesome posts again - I'll just close the thread if we cannot stay off the philosophical bull-@#$%, and ON-TOPIC (or somewhere near).
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Old 26-11-2008, 16:27   #87
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The Pardey's have recounted in one of their books and in articles an unexpected storm (in Baja I beleive) in which most smaller boats ended up being fine, but a large proportion of the larger boats ended up with serious damage. The big difference was that it was easier and faster to get the anchor up, sails up, reefed, etc. with a smaller boat.
This makes no sense to me. Why would the size of the boat make a difference in the time required to raise anchor? Or the time required to set reefed sails? It takes no longer to raise anchor and reef sails on our 53-ft Amel than it did on 32-ft boats we have chartered. In fact, since our sails are electric these actions can be performed much faster on our larger boat than we could perform them on the smaller boats with standard hoisting sails. And every sailing electric function on our boat can also be performed manually; so it is not a big problem if any electric fails, just a minor inconvenience. It does not require a strong man. As long as a person is a knowledgeable sailor and capable of lifting 50-lbs then he/she can single-hand this boat even if every electric convenience should fail at once -- which is highly unlikely to occur.

Go for a small boat if that is your preference. Buy a bigger boat if you prefer that and can afford it. No one is going to change another person's comfort level when it comes to boat size. We can each justify our decisions to ourselves. I have sailed 26-ft boats for day-sailing; but definitely prefer our current 53-ft boat for long-term, full-time liveaboard, long-distance cruising. It is just so easy and comfortable that I cannot imagine doing this circumnavigation in anything smaller. To each his own.

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Old 26-11-2008, 17:56   #88
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The thing about the Pardees that you have to remember is that, as enjoyable as their books are, they are basically Luddites. I am all for going simple, going small. But they take it further in denigrating anything that was invented after Magellan.

I have read articles where Larry critisizes the use of GPS devices. He self-assuredly promises they can (and sometimes in fact they do) fail, and that using a sextant is the only way to go for accuracy and safety. Considering you can buy 2 cheap back-up units for $150, it's obviously a stupid thing to say, almost as stupid as trying to convince me that ANYONE can consistently be more accurate with a sextant than with a GPS.

He does the same thing when argueing that wood boats are just as easy to maintain as fiberglass. And on and on.

Anyway, I don't see the big boat vs. small boat arguement as being much different than the same arguements about houses. Big houses have more room, but have bigger yards to mow and more windows to clean, etc.,
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Old 26-11-2008, 18:00   #89
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ON-TOPIC (or somewhere near).
I Hope .

I'm finding that I am getting caught up in the minimalist approach to sailing. As some are saying, no one needs TV, electricity, hot water, showers, electronic nav, room for the family, engine, etc so I'm going to go small and do a circumnavigation. Am now sold on the idea that the ONLY purpose of sailing is to get away from the complications of land life - many thanks to those who have helped me see that so clearly now, fool that I was before.

So small I am going that I intend SAILING around the world with no boat at all.

Just me, with face mask and snorkel, no clothes to complicate life, not even just the single pair of shorts and tee shirt which the minimalists claim is all one needs. Will be a lead weight strung under my tummy as ballast and mainmast strapped to my back - as I will need it I will have my passport clenched between my cheeks as a mizzen sail cos I am told that ketches are best at everything and I will be able to sail under that alone when things get a bit blowy.

Nav will be without charts (who needs those complicated paper things that take up so much room in any boat) so nav will be just like the turtles - following the lines of latitude and longitude on the sea bottom and doing a flip flop when I cross the equator. No problems with chart errors, different datum systems at all and no corrections to be worried about. No problems of entering the boat at ports of entry, just will be me with passport and big smile for the customs folks.

Have bin practicing straining plankton between my teeth for food but still trying to solve the drinking water problem - maybe someone can help with that?

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Old 26-11-2008, 18:14   #90
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That's a great post, MidlandOne (and GordMay)!!! Basically says it all in a nutshell.
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