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Old 25-11-2008, 10:11   #61
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Originally Posted by Liberty28 View Post
One last comment from me, I couldn't resist. Your capitalism comment... yep, I guess I chose to go broke because of the financial breakdown of the good ol' capitalism system. Now I don't watch the news anymore, way too entertaining for me.

And, by the way, I really do like big boats, too!

I'm outta here... Cheers!
Life is not with out risk..and life's risks are not predigest...
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Old 25-11-2008, 10:46   #62
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I like bigger. I singlehand a 43 foot boat and am looking at a longer boat - makes for more space for "stuff", faster passages and a seakindlier motion. There is a reason that most transoceanic races or events such as the ARC specify minimum LWL and it isn't because of the economic stature of the participants... it is because smaller boats are less safe at sea than larger ones, other factors remaining constant. This isn't just my opinion or just those of race and event organizers --- insurance companies and their actuaries are quite good at compiling relevant statistics and at estimating risk because that is what they do to make a living and if they see a correlation between boat size and safety then I will believe that over anecdotal evidence 10 times out of 10. (plus I am looking for justification in getting a bigger boat )
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Old 25-11-2008, 11:07   #63
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This discussion is great! I have an opinion and I've shared it many times but all your arguments just go to show that the reason we buy a certain size, shape, color or purpose built boat is because that's what we fall in love with or want at the time. Sometimes it doesn't make all the right arguments for good reasoning.
If I were to buy another boat I'd be hard pressed to have a reason to get over 36' on deck.
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Old 25-11-2008, 11:19   #64
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You’re absolutely right JohnL. If you are looking for a weekend racer and occasional cruiser it is completely a different set of priorities to someone who is looking for a home.
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Old 25-11-2008, 14:03   #65
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Absolutely, but I would add "...and can afford."
Yeah, but like everything else folk have very differing definitions of "affordable". But difference is what makes life interesting

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I pay others to look after my troubles; and money, well I have enuff of that so what the hell .
Indeed. As I remarked to the Butler only this morning.....when he was removing the tops to my Eggs (Cook boils a mean egg - 7 mins 33 seconds)
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Old 25-11-2008, 16:16   #66
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Shawkillum,
Amost entertaining time I've had reading the thread! Last Spring I settled on a 46 footer, cold molded and 44k pounds displacement. She has already circumnavigated once (maybe twice someday???). I was entranced by many 50+ footers, and as you note - doggoneit I could have bought them. But the voice in the back of my head kept saying - "no more than 45 ft". I busted it by 1 foot. This is a very large boat. Docking is the primary challenge - but I enjoy it. The lack of maneuverability is part of the fun dude! I seriously considered electiric winches and a bow thruster, but am glad I didn't spend this money, as I adapted and iimproved my skills.

I think there is much to be said for a cruising boat under 40', but my family would not fit. I am extremely happy with my choice and it is the right one for me. I spent many hours listing out th epro's and con's before deciding which way to go. I hope that 9 months after your decision, you are as satisfied as I am.

Blahman - I hope you contribute to this post regularly over the next 20 years. However, I was surprised that so few of the sages on this forum bothered to respond to your incindiary social view!
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Old 25-11-2008, 17:24   #67
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There is such a strong temptation to go; Blah!Blah!Blah! to your latest diatribe, but I am quite sure that your pedantic leanings are only a function of your collegiate environment.

Don’t Worry! Be Happy! And those of us foolish enough to follow our own priorities, will think of your teachings…not.

Sailing away on your own boat is an escape! Not a political statement….. so can we just please stick to the sailing bits….thanks!...

Edit: Fully agree Dan.....You cannot borrow Freedom
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Old 25-11-2008, 17:50   #68
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Edit: Whoops! Sorry guys I didn't mean to bring this back to the original topic. <g>

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I realize this question is more or less the same as discuss all aspects of life but I still have to ask.
Median boat size is a somewhat derivative of median home size. Both have been trending larger for a while now. You can see how the expectation of living space would make it so. Why would you move from a comfortable 1800, 2400, 3200 square foot home to a floating closet-sized hovel? Advances in materials and systems facilitate larger boats which able to be short crewed relatively safely.

My argument here for boat choice is obvious and redundant: Learn as much about as many boats as you can to make a choose a boat you are, in a variety of ways, comfortable with.

Clearly one of the keys is cost -- both initial purchase and maintenance. I imagine you already know this since you mentioned it already. If you don’t, you’re probably going learn a very expensive, painful lesson.

Related to cost is your ability to travel. Most people buy boats within a few hours of their house because of the desire to see it for themselves. Some will go a ... certain distance further to see some more boats. Few have both the time and money to travel far and wide waiting for ‘the one’. This is true for new or used boats. Even if they can travel far and wide, things can go massively wrong. Trust me, I know.

A third area is how you take to differently sized spaces. The Navy has (or at least, had) tests they run to see if a sailor can adapt to life on a sub. Reason: space, or lack thereof. Same for NASA astronauts. It takes a certain discipline and mental character to live on a smaller boat for an extended period. But a lot of the stress of living on a smaller boat would be pretty much nullified if you spend much time in a marina or solve things through different means. Does it really matter you don’t have space for a washer/dryer combo unit, extra battery, inverter, etc if you would rather use the full-sized one in the marina or pay the locals to do it? Probably not. Now, if you don’t like the thought of others around your laundry or you don’t like the thought of doing it in a laundry mat, then it probably does. You just have to tease out what is a need to have to have vs a nice to have.

There are people who do without AC, refrigeration, and queen sized beds with walk around access. You probably could too. But it’s equally probable that, at some point without enough of the comforts, you would want to bag the whole thing -- at least the cruising aspect... you might like day sailing.

So far what’s been done is narrowing the universe of boats to ones you’ll be able to afford, are near enough by, are large enough not to feel claustrophobic in and have enough comforts so it feels like you are cruising and conducting a sortie.

You also need to think about worst case planning. Therapy asked a good question on this. Here is my reply, but I also recommend you read the whole thread as you’ll cruise as long as things are good. So plan for all other things.

Well, it’s long ... but at least it rambled.
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Old 25-11-2008, 19:58   #69
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Short answer; I think a smaller boat is better.

Best,
Aaron
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Old 25-11-2008, 20:41   #70
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I've had several small boats and BIG is better!

If you have not owned a larger boat how can you say that smaller is better?
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Old 25-11-2008, 20:45   #71
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Old 25-11-2008, 20:50   #72
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I've sailed big boats and been aboard a few for passages. Ownership and all that entails isn't what worries me; It's the safety when things aren't going as planned. I've had furlers jam, goosenecks crack, halyards jam, shrouds pull out, winches jam/not work and other random things. The times stuff happened on big boats, I was distinctly insecure as I knew I was physically overmatched by the large sizes of things.

Bigger is fine if you have crew to run the boat in all situations. I have qualms with understaffing big boats, as is so often seen. I've experienced it and feel it is in poor judgment for someone to purposefully put him or herself up against such big stuff without phyical backup.

Cheers,
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Old 25-11-2008, 20:52   #73
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House payment...1050.00
Boat payment...0.00


Do I win anything...
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Old 25-11-2008, 21:46   #74
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My argument here for boat choice is obvious and redundant: Learn as much about as many boats as you can to make a choose a boat you are, in a variety of ways, comfortable with.
Great post Maren and what I think it all boils down to…is a person’s “Comfort zone” in these 3 areas for choosing the size and type of their boat

1/Financial: is an obvious limiter but more so in the management of your lifestyle after you purchase your boat. We live simple, enjoy our home and don’t feel the need to eat out a lot due to feeling claustrophobic. Ironically on a big boat a cruiser may actually spend much less time at a dock out of preference as they don’t feel the urge to give up their privacy for space and convenience. Also having the space to carry spares and supplies to do things yourself is a big savings.

2/Psychological: This is where we are unique in how we assess our strengths and weaknesses. If you are not mechanically inclined, finding a boat that is robust and simple has nothing to do with size. If you are an inexperienced sailor, I believe you should start with something small so that any novice mistakes you make will not kill someone or take a limb. Confidence can only come from hard learned experience and is not affected by the size of your boat. I do find that the bigger they are, the easier they are to sail but mistakes can be costly.

3/Physical: My first maxim is that the weakest person on board should be able to handle the sails without help. That’s how it is on our boat. Without using power winches and with an education on how to let nature do all the work, my petite girlfriend can handle all the sail work and enjoys it.

Obviously when things go wrong,… the bigger the boat, the bigger the challenge, ….however, if you depend on brute force to solve your problems, then you really are in trouble.

Basically you’ve got to be able to climb the mast and reach every thru-hull valve; the rest can be solved using nature and mechanical laws to your advantage.
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Old 25-11-2008, 22:33   #75
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Just go with what you can afford. There are a lot of big boats for sale that have never been completed or left dock because the owner ran out of money, health or life and never got close to going anywhere. Get what you can, do what you like, but dont run into anyone and mess up thier plans!!
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