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Old 17-11-2017, 11:01   #1666
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juho View Post
I wish more boats were designed this way. For cruising boats, large storage space is essential, and it is also cheaper to build than the furnished living areas. In my ideal boat I'd reserve large sections of the boat (at bow and aft) as storage space. You can also make the waterline longer by having a "rear garage" for your dinghy instead of hanging it on davits at about the same location.
Well, we've talked about this a lot in various threads.

In fact this might be the number one thing I hate most about production designed boats -- and that includes high end cruising boats like HR, Oyster, Discovery, and my own Moody. That accommodation is packed into every cubic inch of hull volume and there is nothing for technical space and deck storage . My 54' boat, 31 and 95/100 registered tonnes (a measure of hull volume), has LESS deck storage than the old Pearson 365 . It's totally unacceptable for a long distance cruiser.

By leaving the ends of the boat free of accommodation space, you also make them lighter, reducing polar moment of inertia and making the boat sail better.

And a serious sailor simply needs space for sails, ropes, fenders, miscellaneous gear, plus parts, supplies, tools, etc. Modern boats, even high end ones, seem to be designed to never sail beyond a day sail from a good boatyard. Crazy. I love my Moody, but the deck storage for a boat this size is just insane. Basically one lazarette and one modest (for this size boat) anchor locker, and that's it. No sail locker at all, and in fact I have to keep spare sails in one of the cabins, underfoot

So how Noelex and SWL have done their new boat is a model for all of us. By the way, Dashew did something similar with his Sundeer, which also has light ends, and even has a midship chain locker. I think you can do it reasonably easily by just adding length and without increasing beam or increasing the accommodation space. I imagine my own next boat being something like my present one inside, even a little smaller, no wider, and at least 10' longer to accommodate great deck storage, separate and commodious sail locker, etc., etc.
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Old 17-11-2017, 11:25   #1667
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Finishing touches are being put to our interior .

The safety rail/ handhold next to the Refleks is in the process of being fitted. Also in the background the one at the foot of the bed can be seen that will double as a support for an LED screen to watch movies. Access has been given to feed a wire through it.

One of the "quick lock" catches on the floorboards is just visible. The entire floor is well secured yet removable. Areas where the bilge needs to be accessed have these easy to release catches.

The watertight door adjacent to the heater isn't in yet:
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Old 17-11-2017, 15:29   #1668
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

So how Noelex and SWL have done their new boat is a model for all of us.
I love what Nolex and SWL have created but, I think they missed a better solution for the transom storage area.

Without seeing an inboard profile to see if it was possible, my criticism of that solution is only conceptual.

The wasted space of two access ladders to a deep common locker and the loss of an emergency exit in case of fire.

I would have sealed the vented seat lockers at deck level and then have one central deck hatch with ladder to access the large transom storage.

I would also have had a watertight access door from aft cabin, into that aft store area with escape to deck.

These photos illustrate what I mean, but it may not have worked with their most knowledgeable list of priorities.
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Old 18-11-2017, 00:48   #1669
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I love what Nolex and SWL have created but, I think they missed a better solution for the transom storage area.

Without seeing an inboard profile to see if it was possible, my criticism of that solution is only conceptual.

The wasted space of two access ladders to a deep common locker and the loss of an emergency exit in case of fire.

I would have sealed the vented seat lockers at deck level and then have one central deck hatch with ladder to access the large transom storage.

I would also have had a watertight access door from aft cabin, into that aft store area with escape to deck.

These photos illustrate what I mean, but it may not have worked with their most knowledgeable list of priorities.
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That is an excellent concept and the storage in the photos looks fabulous. One of the 56 foot Bestevaers (Hannah) did this with their front locker. A watertight door lead from the interior straight to a cavernous area lined with timber slats. They carried the "empty ends" concept even further than we did. It was a brilliant storage space that was also accessible from the exterior and therefore could be used as an emergency exit. Bikes and lines hung on the hull, and sails stored on the floor and a spare portable fridge was strapped down. I remember drooling looking at that space. The new KM 66 foot polar explorer Qilak (Qilak – High latitude cruises and expeditions) also has access to the front this way. You need a big boat to do this well. It is something Dockhead should add to his list .

We did look at the possibility of incorporating something similar for either the front or rear lockers. One at the front would have meant sacrificing a central bed. That immediately eliminated it as an option for us . A door at the rear from the tech area directly to the lazarette would have been very convenient, but it would have needed to be very small (hatch sized), and bench and wall space would have been lost.

We have no room absolutely anywhere at the rear for a deck hatch (our cockpit seats are each 2.4m long and the rear has a fold down swim platform), so a cockpit seat opening would still have been needed. Two were considered a priority to enable easy access to both sides of this valuable space (and the liferaft) without crawling under the cockpit floor. They also provide lots of light and ventilation when working in that area (the watermaker will be fitted there).

Five of the ceiling hatches are large, allowing fairly easy exits, so there are lots of escape routes in case of fire.

So that was how our thinking process went.

Even though we went through reams of paper sketching alternatives (a hugely enjoyable exercise ), I bet there are still lots of great ideas we did not think of incorporating or could have found better solution for, but the option of access to the lockers from the interior was explored and regretfully put aside.

SWL
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Old 18-11-2017, 01:03   #1670
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Not surprised that you went thru that conceptual layout exercise and prioritized for yourselves

I love doing that on yachts, starting with the inboard dimensions on a blank sheet.

Even though I can do it on a drawing program, l like the pencil, scale rule and the old eraser marks to help marinate the solution.

One of the best feelings after you have done all that planning work and see it built by Dutch craftsmen, is about a year later, living on board, when you say to each other.....
.."Not much I would have changed!" [emoji106]
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Old 18-11-2017, 01:14   #1671
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Not surprised that you went thru that conceptual layout exercise and prioritized for yourselves

I love doing that on yachts, starting with the inboard dimensions on a blank sheet.

Even though I can do it on a drawing program, l like the pencil, scale rule and the eraser marks to help marinate the solution.
One of my favourite occupations is scribbing plans . My father in law gifted me his architect's three sided ruler when he retired . For me, a chunk of every sailing holiday for a few decades was spent leisurely playing with either house design (over the years we had two "one off" homes built and thoroughly enjoyed the process) or conceptual boat plans.

Our initial thoughts before buying our last boat were to have a 40 footer aluminium boat built so suddenly returning to plans a decade later and having a 49 footer was a real luxury. Even so, there are still items such as dinghy storage where I have thought "another 20 foot would be good" .

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Old 21-11-2017, 12:05   #1672
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Pilothouse windows:

The pilothouse windows are thick tempered glass. This is the most durable solution that is least likely to give future problems.

Modern fashions dictate the edges of these types of windows are hidden behind internal furniture trim. The streamlined flush appearance looks great, but if there are any leaks sometimes major surgery is needed before the windows can be accessed.

We wanted a simple bolt on internal flange that would make future rebedding or even replacment of windows easy. The drawback is that it is difficult to make this sensible and workmanlike solution look attractive.

In the end I think KM have done a great job. They used an anodised aluminium plate so there are no dissimilar metals. The 5mm plate is proper marine grade 5083 aluminium so there should not be any corrosion problems associated with the simple aluminium extrusions that are frequently used. The thick flange and multitude of bolts keeps the windows secure with even pressure.

The flange of the windows has become, I think, a feature of our pilothouse interior. When done well, these types of engineering details do not need to be hidden behind trim.

One Bestevaer owner even specified a glass floor in the pilothouse above the engine so anything is possible.
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Old 21-11-2017, 12:12   #1673
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Pilothouse windows:

The pilothouse windows are thick tempered glass. This is the most durable solution that is least likely to give future problems.

Modern fashions dictate the edges of these types of windows are hidden behind internal furniture trim. The streamlined flush appearance looks great, but if there are any leaks sometimes major surgery is needed before the windows can be accessed.

We wanted a simple bolt on internal flange that would make future rebedding or even replacment of windows easy. The drawback is that it is difficult to make this sensible and workmanlike solution look attractive.

In the end I think KM have done a great job. They used an anodised aluminium plate so there are no dissimilar metals. The 5mm plate is proper marine grade 5083 aluminium so there should not be any corrosion problems associated with the simple aluminium extrusions that are frequently used. The thick flange and multitude of bolts keeps the windows secure with even pressure.

The flange of the windows has become, I think, a feature of our pilothouse interior. When done well, these types of engineering details do not need to be hidden behind trim.

One Bestevaer owner even specified a glass floor in the pilothouse above the engine.

Looks great... now they just need to get he Philips heads facing the same direction


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Old 21-11-2017, 12:14   #1674
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
One Bestevaer owner even specified a glass floor in the pilothouse above the engine.
Show off!!

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Old 21-11-2017, 12:14   #1675
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by funjohnson View Post
Looks great... now they just need to get he Philips heads facing the same direction


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You do that too??
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Old 21-11-2017, 12:26   #1676
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Looks great... now they just need to get he Philips heads facing the same direction
.
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Old 21-11-2017, 13:10   #1677
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Old 21-11-2017, 14:12   #1678
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Pilothouse windows:

The pilothouse windows are thick tempered glass. This is the most durable solution that is least likely to give future problems.

Modern fashions dictate the edges of these types of windows are hidden behind internal furniture trim. The streamlined flush appearance looks great, but if there are any leaks sometimes major surgery is needed before the windows can be accessed.

We wanted a simple bolt on internal flange that would make future rebedding or even replacment of windows easy. The drawback is that it is difficult to make this sensible and workmanlike solution look attractive.

In the end I think KM have done a great job. They used an anodised aluminium plate so there are no dissimilar metals. The 5mm plate is proper marine grade 5083 aluminium so there should not be any corrosion problems associated with the simple aluminium extrusions that are frequently used. The thick flange and multitude of bolts keeps the windows secure with even pressure.

The flange of the windows has become, I think, a feature of our pilothouse interior. When done well, these types of engineering details do not need to be hidden behind trim.

One Bestevaer owner even specified a glass floor in the pilothouse above the engine so anything is possible.
That looks good. Much better than any attempt to hide functionality behind some decoration.

Your external polycarbonate windows will probably turn out to be useful when moisture starts to condense in those windows in cold weather (I'd like to have such such second windows in my boat).
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Old 21-11-2017, 14:34   #1679
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Juho
My understanding is their windows are tempered glass.

Hi Nolex, great decision on the interior flange finish, can we see a photo of the outside please?
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Old 22-11-2017, 00:44   #1680
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Our watertight door between the salon/galley and owners' cabin made an appearance today for the first time since last year. As with the exposed rim on the pilothouse windows, I love the "industrial" look in contrast to the beautiful timber work. This look will be further softened by leather upholstery, cushions and luxury bedlinen.

We have five seperate watertight compartments. Apparently any two can be flooded and the boat will still float. The watertight door will also be able to be secured from the inside in case of intruders:
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