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Old 18-06-2015, 13:46   #301
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
yes, they 'work'. In fact I believe they are not 'popular' because they work so well that the various racing rules penalize them.

The only drawback I have seen to them is that they can restrict how closely a masthead code zero or similar sail) can be sheeted in.

my personal favorite 'solution' for trysail track and mainsail car is the harken switch track (Harken). It allows a low stack height, convenient trysail with the minimum number of extra machine screws/holes, and high reliability.

We had dyform on Hawk . . . very nice . . . .only downside is you need 'special' fittings/cones for the terminals (unless you are using swaged, which I don't much like) and they have a minor increase in chafe potential.


Here is a photo of my jumpers. Notice the bow around the upper spreaders and the jumper struts. This prevents any chance of any head sail fouling on the jumper struts. With the jumpers and a robust mast section I have no need for running back stays on my cutter rig.Click image for larger version

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Old 18-06-2015, 14:38   #302
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
I have been convinced that a 'properly built' carbon mast is better (but yes, rather more expensive) in all regards than aluminum (note: I consulted to southern spars for a while, and was CEO of a niche extreme modulus carbon pre-preg company). BUT the builders mostly don't understand the cruising application and many actually don't really understand carbon construction all that well.

....
Regarding carbon masts I had no idea that maintenance was a lot more expensive then on aluminium masts till I saw some days ago a sister boat of mine having its aluminium spar taken out for maintenance, probably the first big one after six or seven years (I hope).

They have been around the mast for about 3 or 4 days (three guys) mostly sanding and painting it. It looks beautiful now but the bill, only in what regards work hours, should be quite big. On an aluminium mast all that work (painting) would not be needed.

Don't take me wrong, I love carbon, just was not aware of the maintenance to keep it shinning and sun protected.
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Old 18-06-2015, 14:47   #303
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Some years ago they test sailed for the European boat of the year a Bestwind 50 (that has some similitude with a Bestevaer) under very heavy conditions. I like the boat and I has expecting that it would shine under those circumstances but the several testers (lots of them) were more impressed with the Halber Rassy and even more with the Oyster.

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Old 18-06-2015, 15:06   #304
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

SWL/Nolex, does the proposed mast have in-line or swept spreaders?

It is one of those compromise issues IMO, for swept back spreaders do a superb job of supporting the mast but do limit the main sheeting angles when sailing deep angles. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, I've noted that Selden booms are relatively weak in the horizontal plane (somewhat thin wall sections, and tall, narrow shape). We have seen several broken where mid-boom preventers were used (two close personal friends and a few casual observations). Don't know if this is an issue for you.

And finally, we've been using Dyform and now 'Compact Strand" wire for decades, and think it is well worth the small premium in cost. It just has better stretch and strength numbers. Further, in the past if y ou got wire that looked like that you knew that it came from a reliable manufacturer. Finding the origin of "Compact Strand" wire is the usual difficult and murky task, but we still use it!

OH... I would stick with alloy too, especially if you intend to visit remote and third world areas. Finding competent aluminium welders is hard enough, but skilled carbon fibre techs just don't exist in many of the world's best cruising grounds!

Keep up the thread, guys, for it is about the most interesting one going these days!

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Old 18-06-2015, 15:34   #305
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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I would repeat the recommendation to read the Dashew's boating encyclopedia book. It is loaded with information including information on rudders, in spades, pun intended.

Pretty sure I had to order the Dashew book from their website, it was expensive, but well worth the money. The book also has a section of building a boat that discusses, contracts, specifications, loans, etc.
Thanks Dan.
A few links for anyone interested:

The Dashew website:
SetSail

The book is called the Dashew Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia-II and is available on their website at about a third of the cost it is from Amazon US:
SetSail » Blog Archive » Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia

Unfortunately I can't find it available in e-book form anywhere, so purchase will have to wait until next year.

By the way, last year Steve & Linda Dashew generously made two of their books available free in pdf form, "Mariner's Weather Handbook" and "Surviving the Storm". They said:

"Dashew Offshore, Beowulf Publishing, and the FPB team have been blessed with the support of the cruising community for many years, and wed like to return the favor in a small way. We are making these two books, Mariners Weather Handbook and Surviving the Storm, available for free as PDF files. We hope Mariners Weather Handbook helps you avoid the need for Surviving the Storm. If these books help a few of our fellow cruisers have a more enjoyable experience, and perhaps stay out of difficulty, we will have been amply repaid."

Links to these are at the bottom of this page:
SetSail » Blog Archive » Weather Forecasting, Storm Tactics & Successful Cruising Plus An Offer You Cant Refuse
Well worth reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Here is a photo of my jumpers. Notice the bow around the upper spreaders and the jumper struts. This prevents any chance of any head sail fouling on the jumper struts. With the jumpers and a robust mast section I have no need for running back stays on my cutter rig.
S/V B'Shert
Thanks for the photo. That makes it very clear.
Dockhead's earlier mention of these was a very valuable suggestion.

So much good information is being posted. Many thanks to everyone. It has given us a lot of additional things to think about. I hope this thread will be also be very useful to anyone thinking of building or buying a boat.

SWL
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Old 18-06-2015, 15:42   #306
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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. skilled carbon fibre techs just don't exist in many of the world's best cruising grounds!
do you remember that Yves Parlier broke his (carbon) mast in two in the 2002 vendee. he sailed it into Port Pegasus (steward island) under jerry rig, cut the two broken ends clean, made an internal sleeve from the bits he cut off, epoxied it all back together using a Jerry rig heat lamp, ate sea weed because he was running out of food, and then finished the race all unassisted - fantastic - he's of course french

In any case . . . basic carbon repair is not all that difficult, you can pretty much always do good enough to make a repair to get somewhere with better skills.

But it sounds like its moot in this case - anodized aluminum is just fine. The selden spars are pretty decent. I agree with jim that the booms have a bit of a reputation for being slightly under spec - but his yard/designer are knowledgeable and should have addressed that.
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Old 18-06-2015, 16:13   #307
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
do you remember that Yves Parlier broke his (carbon) mast in two in the 2002 vendee. he sailed it into Port Pegasus (steward island) under jerry rig, cut the two broken ends clean, made an internal sleeve from the bits he cut off, epoxied it all back together using a Jerry rig heat lamp, ate sea weed because he was running out of food, and then finished the race all unassisted - fantastic - he's of course french
G'Day Evans,

No, I had not heard that fabulous story! Crikeys! Shades of Robinson Crusoe crossed with Slocum and a bit of boy Scouts thrown in for good measure. I love it! Do you have a link to a full account perchance? It would be a good read...

But as far as I know, neither SWL nor Nolex are French, so I would hope that they never are faced with that situation.

Jim
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Old 18-06-2015, 16:26   #308
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Jim:
Yves Parlier fixing his broken mast - VENDEE - GLOBE - 2000 - VENDEE - GLOBE - RACES - EVENTS - OFFSHORE - RACING - Sea and Co, The Marine Photo Library
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Old 18-06-2015, 16:29   #309
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

^^
this is a collection of photos: Yves Parlier fixing his broken mast - VENDEE - GLOBE - 2000 - VENDEE - GLOBE - RACES - EVENTS - OFFSHORE - RACING - Sea and Co, The Marine Photo Library

edit :fritz beat me to it

and a general public story written at the time: Despite Mishaps, French Sailor Is Near Finish in Vendee Globe Race - A Battered but Unbowed Arrival - NYTimes.com

Yves is one of my two sailing 'heros' - he's flawed (he gets into trouble too often) like all heros should be, but he is smart and resilient and just never ever gives up.
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Old 18-06-2015, 17:10   #310
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Thanks, guys! I'm just blown away by this feat... don't know how I missed it in real time, or maybe it is dementia onset and i just forgot about it. At any rate, Evans, I can see why he rates hero status in your eyes... mine too!

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Old 18-06-2015, 17:11   #311
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Thanks Dan.
A few links for anyone interested:

The Dashew website:
SetSail

The book is called the Dashew Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia-II and is available on their website at about a third of the cost it is from Amazon US:
SetSail » Blog Archive » Offshore Cruising Encyclopedia

Unfortunately I can't find it available in e-book form anywhere, so purchase will have to wait until next year.

By the way, last year Steve & Linda Dashew generously made two of their books available free in pdf form, "Mariner's Weather Handbook" and "Surviving the Storm". They said:

"Dashew Offshore, Beowulf Publishing, and the FPB team have been blessed with the support of the cruising community for many years, and wed like to return the favor in a small way. We are making these two books, Mariners Weather Handbook and Surviving the Storm, available for free as PDF files. We hope Mariners Weather Handbook helps you avoid the need for Surviving the Storm. If these books help a few of our fellow cruisers have a more enjoyable experience, and perhaps stay out of difficulty, we will have been amply repaid."

Links to these are at the bottom of this page:
SetSail » Blog Archive » Weather Forecasting, Storm Tactics & Successful Cruising Plus An Offer You Cant Refuse
Well worth reading.
...

SWL
Agreed! Well, Well Worth reading. I downloaded and read the free Dashew books last year and they are danged good reads. And the price can't be beat! I did not mind at all paying for the hard back version of the encyclopedia because I figured I got three books for the price of one.

I could not find an eBook version of the encyclopedia either but I figured it was one of those books I would want to have in print on a boat. Some of what is in the encyclopedia is out of date but much is not. I refer to it often.

Later,
Dan
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Old 19-06-2015, 04:48   #312
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Crikeys! Shades of Robinson Crusoe crossed with Slocum and a bit of boy Scouts thrown in for good measure. I love it! Do you have a link to a full account perchance? It would be a good read...

But as far as I know, neither SWL nor Nolex are French, so I would hope that they never are faced with that situation.

Jim
Well, if innovation under challenging conditions is a French trait, then Noelex must have some French ancestry (with my love of champagne, fromage and croissants I know I certainly have ).

Not being able to make decent coffee on board recently after I lost the plastic screw-on base of my Aeropress coffee maker (when it comes to emergencies, that was right up there with dismasting and having to eat seaweed), this is what he designed and made from stainless steel bolts & wing nuts, plus ply and alu scraps we had on board. It is clunky, but thankfully functions perfectly. There would have been mutiny on board otherwise :
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Old 19-06-2015, 09:42   #313
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

That's great SWL. I'm sure he could have done the same with duct tape and fencing wire if forced . We recently had a sloppy mix of bread in the breadmaker and Jen accidentally threw the lot (including breadmaker paddle bit) over for the fishes. Ok, that's what I have epoxy putty on board for I thought, so fashioned a replacement paddle. All seemed good till the cooking phase. I guess the epoxy putty didn't like the extreme temperatures because we ended up with paddle bread.
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Old 19-06-2015, 10:05   #314
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

SWL . . . .do you guys know how to weld aluminum, plan to carry a machine?

I have tack welded, but can't truly say I know how to weld. We always hired guys when we had something significant and did not carry a machine. But if you knew or learned, it would vastly increase your ability to make little improvements/modifications to the boat, in addition to that 'hope it will not ever happen' need for a big repair someplace extremely remote..
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Old 19-06-2015, 10:35   #315
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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SWL . . . .do you guys know how to weld aluminum, plan to carry a machine?

I have tack welded, but can't truly say I know how to weld. We always hired guys when we had something significant and did not carry a machine. But if you knew or learned, it would vastly increase your ability to make little improvements/modifications to the boat, in addition to that 'hope it will not ever happen' need for a big repair someplace extremely remote..
Welding aluminium seems to be an art as well as a science . One of the most critical factors when having an alu boat built is to ensure the welders are top notch.

Noelex has little welding experience (and I can only solder) and I would certainly never trust either of us to weld a critical part if we only had rudimentary skills. Also, these skills are not much use without a welder. The problem is that a suitable welder is heavy, expensive and requires electricity and gas. If don't carry a suitable welder and if you can find one ashore, you can usually find someone who can do the welding, so the skills become less important.

In the case of a hull breach, temporary repairs in aluminium are reasonably easy. We carry sheets of 5083 for emergencies, and bolted in place with copious quantities of Sikaflex they would form a reasonably durable seal.

However, we both dislike not knowing how to do things like this. There are several alu boat building courses that are primarily designed to teach people the skills to weld their own aluminium runabouts from a kit. It hasn't been a big priority, but we have been trying to enrol either both of us or just Noelex in one of these courses for some time, but the timing has never been quite right.

SWL
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