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Old 12-06-2015, 06:06   #166
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
You are skilled Weav!

It would look better with the windows larger and evenly spaced, as they will be. To my eye the front bit needs raking more.
What do you think overall?

SWL
It looks great!! Your pilothouse is a big improvement.

More rake would look better, but think about solar gain. I would probably leave it like that.

Will be a shame to spoil those lovely lines with an arch and davits.
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:06   #167
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
You are skilled Weav!

It would look better with the windows larger and evenly spaced, as they will be. To my eye the front bit needs raking more.
What do you think overall?

SWL
I did not alter windows or angles simply because the concept needs to be considered as a whole. Once the shape is fundamentally 'ok' then all the tidying up can be done.

I am a lover of large wheelhouses. So Im on board - if you excuse the pun.
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:24   #168
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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HOw high and wide do you envision the arch?
Do you want integral davits in it?
The height of the arch needs to be a bit higher than the person shown standing in the cockpit so there is head clearance.

We would like 1000w of solar if this achievable, so the size needs to accommodate this. I will see if I can hunt up roughly what area needs to be.
Edited to add: solar area of the panels themselves is 6.3 square metres, so a bit extra is needed.

Regarding the rear, I don't have a good photo of the swim platform down for a Bestevaer, but here is a shot of it on K&M's similar fibreglass version, the Bestewind 50:

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Old 12-06-2015, 06:36   #169
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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It looks great!! Your pilothouse is a big improvement.
Thanks . Weav's image will probably look better when it is shortened to the size I had it and the windows fill it up. The 3D image looks too big and boxy to me.

Quote:
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Will be a shame to spoil those lovely lines with an arch and davits.
LOL, the challenge is to find how to make them look acceptable, not to dissuade us.

The designers of course have also been tasked to draft up a design and I can't wait to see what it is, but with the talent here on CF someone may come up with something brilliant. Structural integrity is a whole other matter .

SWL
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:41   #170
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Just threw in a rough re angling of the front of the deckhouse......

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Old 12-06-2015, 06:43   #171
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Just threw in a rough re angling of the front of the deckhouse......
Is it possible to try a bit shorter too?
It is still bigger than my sketch. The length of the top of the pilothouse should be almost the same as the distance from the front of the top to the mast I think.

Compare the two:



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Old 12-06-2015, 07:03   #172
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

So why the removal of the round hull ports? They look awesome in person and add some needed light down below.

Matt
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Old 12-06-2015, 07:15   #173
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Just shortened it a little.

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Old 12-06-2015, 07:18   #174
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

LOL

This is only a concept, not to scale. Im a doodler. Just playing with the look......

Now trying to figure how to get an extra hull to look balanced......
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Old 12-06-2015, 07:21   #175
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Quote:
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Here's a really good analysis of different heating systems:

https://www.morganscloud.com/2009/12...ating-systems/

"In summary, both systems have their pros and cons. I think that if we were fitting out an expedition boat from scratch we would have a Refleks with a heat exchanger and registers, and an undersized Eberspacher hot air system; the first for long periods in port or at the anchor and the second to knock the chill off at sea and on brisk mornings. As both Polaris and Morgan’s Cloud have, I would also install a heat exchanger hot air blower off the engine cooling system, since this delivers what is essentially free heat whenever the engine is running. This is a lot of mechanical stuff for one function, it is true, but being cold in the high latitudes is at best a trip spoiler and at worst dangerous."

As with so many boat systems, there is not an ideal answer.

But for sure if you think about high latitudes, even Northern Europe, pay a lot of attention to heat, which is a crucial system.

With no generator and not even shore power, you have no backup electric heat -- one of several drawbacks of your KISS electrical system. Partially compensated by your choice of the REFLEKS, which is the most reliable possible furnace.

We heat year round up here, so have some experience with heating I can share.

The best heat by far is electric, run off shore power. It's the major attraction of being in a marina in the winter (which is usually cheap because it's the off season). If I were building a new boat, I would have an electric resistance heat unit built into the hydronic central heating system, with a separate shore power lead.

Eberspaecher hydronic is just like Morgan's Cloud describes it -- functionally superior but high maintenance and not reliable enough to be your only heat source in cold remote places, unless you have a whole redundant furnace. But one of several big advantages it has is that you can splice in other heat sources, including even a REFLEKS heat exchanger, also waste heat from engine.

Using waste heat to heat the interior is really useful for cold climates. I don't have this yet but it's high on my list. You just splice in a bus heater into the engine coolant loop you are using to heat your calorifier. Cheap, simple, and very effective -- you can take 10kW or more of heat out of your engine fresh water cooling circuit with no problem. Highly recommended.

I am right now using my generator and electric heaters as backup heat at anchor, as my Eber is down (I didn't manage to do the biannual maintenance and it is coked up). One of many, many things you can do to backup other systems with abundant AC power, hint, hint.

Someone else mentioned reverse cycle AC and we talked about it some. Not relevant for you, I guess. We had it on the last boat, which was used in a warm climate (Florida). With no generator, we could only use it on shore power. But it is extremely efficient and is a Godsend when you're cold, even if you have to find a marina to use it. We actually used it quite a bit.

Like you, I have never found the need for air conditioning at anchor even in the tropics. But I have wanted it in hot ports and marinas, and you might die in an urban port in the tropics without it. I don't have it on my boat, but would probably install it if I built a new one. Unless you plan to stay in the Aegean the rest of your life, you should be careful not to assume that all your cruising will be at anchor like in Greece -- in many parts of the world, the ports are a large part of the attraction.


For heat, I would probably do what Morgan's Cloud recommends, with a REFLEKS or solid fuel stove on a bulkhead in the salon, but with hydronic distribution and a separate Eber furnace. If you're going to insist on being KISS with heat, or if you don't plan to spend much time in cold places, then your solution is probably ideal. I'd add the bus heater, though.
Thanks for this detailed and very well thought out post. Lots of valuable information, particulalry for those primarily cruising cold waters.

The article from Morgan's Cloud reinforces our decision to install a Refleks on the salon bulkhead. The pilothouse/salon/galley/guest best will be very open plan, so this should heat up the area well. Without any hydronic distribution the owner's cabin will be cooler, but that is not a bad thing for sleeping. The end of the bed is only about 2m from the Refleks, so it will certainly not be excessively cold in there with the watertight door open, as it usually will be. Only the shower will suffer. We have lived without any heater for many winters here and summers in colder zones should be no worse, so this is not a great concern.

The bus heater is an excellent suggestion, providing free heat when the motor is running and redundancy that we like. We may add that later as it would be very easy do so with our plan. It depends how much we end up in cold waters (this be extremely little, particularly after I have experienced my first swim in the Baltic ).

SWL
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Old 12-06-2015, 07:23   #176
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Just shortened it a little.

Ah, thankyou .

MUCH nicer. Your original image was causing pain .

SWL xxx
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Old 12-06-2015, 07:32   #177
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

In playing with the lines on this vessel, I did do some ultra modern looks.

It did not work. This is a classic design and as such, I dont think you can do much more than extend or retract and flare a little.

If you draw a lateral line and angles with a slight radius..... thats it. The boat is a Classic and Im beginning to love it.

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Old 12-06-2015, 07:44   #178
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
In playing with the lines on this vessel, I did do some ultra modern looks.

It did not work. This is a classic design and as such, I dont think you can do much more than extend or retract and flare a little.

If you draw a lateral line and angles with a slight radius..... thats it. The boat is a Classic and Im beginning to love it.
Oh, me too .

I don't think it will date quickly and that appeals tremendously. Although it doesn't have that ultra sleek look that sends my heart pattering, the classic lines are very purposeful to my eye (particularly with my pilothouse extension ).

The hull shape is narrower than most production boats of this length have, and coupled by a waterline length maximised for its size and a bulb keel and spade rudder and empty ends, it should make its performance reasonable. That is important for us.

SWL
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Old 12-06-2015, 07:50   #179
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Ultra sleep look....... I know what you mean.....

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Old 12-06-2015, 08:16   #180
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Woo hoo!
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