Bestevaer 49ST

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Who uses cockpit iceboxes are those who like to have drinks and ice out there and keep others from opening the fridge door all the time.

Have some friends who used their boat for corporate entertaining, and that icebox was characteristically filled with champagne, like a galvanized tub and beer, but the beverage was different.

Ann

I understand, its actually I believe a marketing thing, sounds good.
Surprisingly it has a double wall and almost three inches of air space between the walls. I have been told it’s best use it to turn ice into water. I use it for storage too, good to put wet things into because of the drain

[JPA Cate]

We could start a whole new thread about how to use that space, if you don't want it for its intended purpose.

A.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

We could start a whole new thread about how to use that space, if you don't want it for its intended purpose.

A.

I don’t want to hijack too much, more of a when you buy a manufactured Boat, you have to live with what the manufacturer thought was best, but if you get to design it, maybe you don’t have to have as many useless “features”.
I like the extra space around the stove, cause to clean around ours requires some special tools as I don’t even think a child could get their hand between the stove and it’s enclosure.
You just have to start keeping a list of peeves I guess when you decide to go down this path.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I like the extra space around the stove, cause to clean around ours requires some special tools as I don’t even think a child could get their hand between the stove and it’s enclosure.
You just have to start keeping a list of peeves I guess when you decide to go down this path.

Elbow room was specified as the gap size required around the oven. No more cleaning gymnastics or scrapes on my arms was the motivation .

There was some resistance to this - storage space was considered more important. The threat that I would call the draftsman to come over and clean the cavity each time if this gap wasn't provided eventually brought results .

SWL

[Jim Cate]

There was some resistance to this - storage space was considered more important. The threat that I would call the draftsman to come over and clean the cavity each time if this gap wasn't provided eventually brought results .

good one, Angela! IMO she who cuts the checks gets to allocate use of space. One of my idle dreams is that every yacht designer should have to live aboard and make a passage in their designs before they can be sold... and change the oil and the impeller, too!

Idle dream, as i said...

Jim

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

good one, Angela! IMO she who cuts the checks gets to allocate use of space. One of my idle dreams is that every yacht designer should have to live aboard and make a passage in their designs before they can be sold... and change the oil and the impeller, too!

Idle dream, as i said...

Jim

The consumer primarily drives design . Once a budget and rough boat length are decided on, what seems to clinch sales of new boats is an exterior with beautiful lines the most interior space per foot of boat length. The "wow" factor rules, but it comes at a price. Other design features suffer.

Interior and exterior storage and access to the hull and to equipment and other items such as hoses and inside of fuel and water tanks that will need servicing/repair/replacement/cleaning are also either not considered by the consumer or take a back seat.

Same goes with things like requesting details of hull layup and rudder strength and support, and details of keel design and attachment, and use of brass below water through hull fittings. I could go on and on .

If these were features that buyers quizzed sales reps about, and dismissed boats if they didn't come up to scratch, then I am sure yacht designers would start to pay attention to these items.

SWL

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

good one, Angela! IMO she who cuts the checks gets to allocate use of space. One of my idle dreams is that every yacht designer should have to live aboard and make a passage in their designs before they can be sold... and change the oil and the impeller, too!

Idle dream, as i said...

Jim

Years ago I toured the Mercedes factory in Germany. I learned that any design Engineer they had first did an apprenticeship on the factory floor and service center.
Now I haven’t had a Mercedes in decades so I’m sure things are different, but the older cars you could tell it. The brake calipers were held on by quick release pins, compress the Pistons with a screwdriver, pull one pin, rotate the caliper up, pull the old pads, slip the new ones in, replace pin. One minute pad change.
The radio came out the front of the dash, with no other disassembly of the dash, the speakers on the rear deck were set into the deck, not mounted under it via the trunk. You could tell the things were meant to be worked on.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The consumer primarily drives design . Once a budget and rough boat length are decided on, what seems to clinch sales of new boats is an exterior with beautiful lines the most interior space per foot of boat length. The "wow" factor rules, but it comes at a price. Other design features suffer.

Interior and exterior storage and access to the hull and to equipment and other items such as hoses and inside of fuel and water tanks that will need servicing/repair/replacement/cleaning are also either not considered by the consumer or take a back seat.

Same goes with things like requesting details of hull layup and rudder strength and support, and details of keel design and attachment, and use of brass below water through hull fittings. I could go on and on .

If these were features that buyers quizzed sales reps about, and dismissed boats if they didn't come up to scratch, then I am sure yacht designers would start to pay attention to these items.

SWL

Consumer drives design, I’ll agree there.
However the consumer does not care about being able to service the Boat, that’s dirty work, you hire people to do dirty work, your too important. They don’t mow their lawns, wash their cars much less service them, heck they won’t even unclog a drain.
What is most important is the biggest, most impressive Boat with lots of room to entertain and impress friends, and quality doesn’t matter.
I’ve looked at new build 5,000 sq ft “estate” homes. What was common in all of them was hollow core doors, cheap frameless windows, inadequate HVAC systems, wiring that just barely met code, concrete slab floors, very poorly framed, plumbing ran in the concrete floor. One water heater. Cheap roof, inadequate roof overhang. List goes on and on, cheap builds just BIG.
However the counter tops were granite on top of cheap mass produced particle board cabinets, the fridge was a sub zero, the stove a Viking, the “bling” was there.
Average buyer? Mid 50’s mortgaged to the hilt and buying on a 30 yr loan.

The few times I have been in a Lagoon or similar Boat, I see those houses. Average buyer? Mid 50’s, mortgaged to the hilt, with a long term loan.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The consumer primarily drives design . Once a budget and rough boat length are decided on, what seems to clinch sales of new boats is an exterior with beautiful lines the most interior space per foot of boat length. The "wow" factor rules, but it comes at a price. Other design features suffer.

SWL

So true!.... and it takes a very focussed client when building a custom yacht, to do their homework and feasibility studies, BEFORE going to contract.
Otherwise they get the architects vision, other than their own.

Form following Function, is really what the client wants, but the designers see only "flowing lines" and symmetry with which to enhance their reputation.
It takes a very strong client to insist on both.

[a64pilot]

The concept of a true custom build is so far beyond me, I’d have to be led I’m afraid.
That and my desires and the wife’s may clash. I’d want things like easily removable interior to access plumbing and wiring, wiring run in raceways and not all zip tied together so that I could pull an individual wire, all polypropylene tanks, or which ever is the best plastic.
I’m afraid that all my ideas would end up with a kludge of a Boat?
Yeah, I’d have to be led.

Oh, and I’m not so sure most want form following function, that sometimes isn’t nearly as visually appealing

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Oh, and I’m not so sure most want form following function, that sometimes isn’t nearly as visually appealing

If you design from the inside out making sure all your ergonomic needs and visuals (from the inside) are met.....then the styling on the outside actually has real purpose and can be made beautiful.

All of this in concert with flexible, engineering, hull size and conceptual layout.... is very doable but is a lot harder to achieve.
It costs a lot more to pre-engineer feasibility in contract drawings before choosing a builder, but it is the best investment a client wishing a fully custom yacht can make.

On a semi custom like this, being involved in the layout to meet your ergonomic needs, and choosing the equipment, will always have compromises, but if you have the kind of experience of Nolex and SWL....then those compromises are minor ones made up front based on their priorities.

[Anevarez]

I’m looking for a C&C 37 mast. I have the same problem, I’m from Puerto Rico and can’t find a place that sells masts.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Anevarez

I’m looking for a C&C 37 mast. I have the same problem, I’m from Puerto Rico and can’t find a place that sells masts.

Wrong thread I think [emoji848]

[Mirar]

I haven't checked in for a long while as I have been busy finishing the build of my 55' tinny. I agree with many in this thread that it is impossible in a stock built boat to get the exact details you are looking for and at a reasonable cost. The problem , of course in a custom build is that the possibilities are endless and analysis paralysis becomes the norm. I probably spent an entire year mulling over the implications and choices for every stage of the project . The end result , no one to blame but myself, and I know absolutely everything about it.
Apparently I don't know how to trim that wee staysail though. Ha!
cheers, Greg

[Pelagic]

Real beauty Greg.....