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Old 13-11-2017, 11:58   #1636
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

The big difference between you and people like me that are just starting out is experience.
You know what you want and need, I have to theorize what we may want, so therefore I over prepare and over spec.
My idea is what wonít be sorely missed wonít be fixed, and will just be removed when it breaks, what I consider essential items will be duplicated when possible.
I have an icebox conversion and an Engle for instance. However buying an already built Boat, it made more sense to convert the ice box as opposed to trying to rip it out, or I would have gone the portable fridge route, at a fraction of the expense of a conversion I might add, and a whole lot easier to replace.

There are of course a whole lot of options available if you get a custom Boat built, a factory Boat you have to work around what is already there. Right now Iím installing a watermaker, sure would be a whole lot easier if someone hadnít thought a cockpit ice box would be a good thing, itís right where my HP pump should be, and who would ever use a built in cockpit ice box?
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Old 14-11-2017, 22:55   #1637
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post

PS Our refrigeration will be a stainless steel National Luna portable fridge. A similar smaller unit will function when required as a freezer or additional refrigeration, and will also double up as a backup.
I like the idea of easily replacable refrigeration and the National Luna are good. What sizes did you decide on? How and where will they be mounted?
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Old 15-11-2017, 01:17   #1638
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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I like the idea of easily replacable refrigeration and the National Luna are good. What sizes did you decide on? How and where will they be mounted?
40 litres for the one in the galley. This model has extra thick insulation, primarily to be used as a freezer, but this means it functions more efficiently when operated as a fridge. It will live under the bench at the peak of the U, on top of the 60 litre stainless steel "day" water tank, which will raise it close to bench height. The bench is timber in this portion with a lid incorporated.

It will be secured down with straps. Several other models would fit in the allocated space, up to about 20% larger.

The second unit (freezer/back up fridge) hasn't been decided on yet. We thought we would live with one next year before purchasing another unit. It will be less needed in polar bear territory .

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Old 15-11-2017, 12:09   #1639
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Hi Ann
How exactly do you bake bread in a pressure cooker? That is one thing I have not tried, but I think would be an extremely useful technique, as I bake most of the bread we consume. Do you put it in a pan or straight in the pot? High heat? Lid cracked open? How long does it take?

SWL
Here ya go:
1- Remove gasket
2- butter the inside of the PC and the lid
3- Mix up the bread dough. Keep it in the bowl if you're letting it rise twice, and put it in the PC for the second rising. (In cold weather, I light the pilot light in the oven to make a warm place for it rising, or keep the oven warm by adding a pan with lid of boiling water, and keep re-heating the water.)
4- Bake it with the lid on [the gasket being out, heat can escape] in the PC on lowest heat, 45 to 55 min, depending on how large a loaf you're making. Sometimes I make 6-7 c. flour recipes, sometimes 8-10 c. The larger needs a higher capacity PC.
5- When it's done (characteristic hollow sound), tip it out of the PC, and put it back in top down, to brown the top a little, it looks nicer.

Ann
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Old 15-11-2017, 12:15   #1640
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

Who uses cockpit iceboxes are those who like to have drinks and ice out there and keep others from opening the fridge door all the time.

Have some friends who used their boat for corporate entertaining, and that icebox was characteristically filled with champagne, like a galvanized tub and beer, but the beverage was different.

Ann
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Old 15-11-2017, 12:50   #1641
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Who uses cockpit iceboxes are those who like to have drinks and ice out there and keep others from opening the fridge door all the time.

Have some friends who used their boat for corporate entertaining, and that icebox was characteristically filled with champagne, like a galvanized tub and beer, but the beverage was different.

Ann
My boat has a cockpit ice box. I never even vaguely considered using it for its intended purpose.

I use it to store harness tethers, air horn, and water fittings.
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Old 15-11-2017, 15:41   #1642
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Who uses cockpit iceboxes are those who like to have drinks and ice out there and keep others from opening the fridge door all the time.

Have some friends who used their boat for corporate entertaining, and that icebox was characteristically filled with champagne, like a galvanized tub and beer, but the beverage was different.

Ann


I understand, its actually I believe a marketing thing, sounds good.
Surprisingly it has a double wall and almost three inches of air space between the walls. I have been told itís best use it to turn ice into water. I use it for storage too, good to put wet things into because of the drain
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Old 15-11-2017, 17:00   #1643
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

We could start a whole new thread about how to use that space, if you don't want it for its intended purpose.

A.
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Old 15-11-2017, 19:27   #1644
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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We could start a whole new thread about how to use that space, if you don't want it for its intended purpose.

A.


I donít want to hijack too much, more of a when you buy a manufactured Boat, you have to live with what the manufacturer thought was best, but if you get to design it, maybe you donít have to have as many useless ďfeaturesĒ.
I like the extra space around the stove, cause to clean around ours requires some special tools as I donít even think a child could get their hand between the stove and itís enclosure.
You just have to start keeping a list of peeves I guess when you decide to go down this path.
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Old 15-11-2017, 23:10   #1645
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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I like the extra space around the stove, cause to clean around ours requires some special tools as I donít even think a child could get their hand between the stove and itís enclosure.
You just have to start keeping a list of peeves I guess when you decide to go down this path.
Elbow room was specified as the gap size required around the oven. No more cleaning gymnastics or scrapes on my arms was the motivation .

There was some resistance to this - storage space was considered more important. The threat that I would call the draftsman to come over and clean the cavity each time if this gap wasn't provided eventually brought results .

SWL
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Old 16-11-2017, 01:11   #1646
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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There was some resistance to this - storage space was considered more important. The threat that I would call the draftsman to come over and clean the cavity each time if this gap wasn't provided eventually brought results .
good one, Angela! IMO she who cuts the checks gets to allocate use of space. One of my idle dreams is that every yacht designer should have to live aboard and make a passage in their designs before they can be sold... and change the oil and the impeller, too!

Idle dream, as i said...

Jim
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Old 16-11-2017, 01:58   #1647
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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good one, Angela! IMO she who cuts the checks gets to allocate use of space. One of my idle dreams is that every yacht designer should have to live aboard and make a passage in their designs before they can be sold... and change the oil and the impeller, too!

Idle dream, as i said...

Jim
The consumer primarily drives design . Once a budget and rough boat length are decided on, what seems to clinch sales of new boats is an exterior with beautiful lines the most interior space per foot of boat length. The "wow" factor rules, but it comes at a price. Other design features suffer.

Interior and exterior storage and access to the hull and to equipment and other items such as hoses and inside of fuel and water tanks that will need servicing/repair/replacement/cleaning are also either not considered by the consumer or take a back seat.

Same goes with things like requesting details of hull layup and rudder strength and support, and details of keel design and attachment, and use of brass below water through hull fittings. I could go on and on .

If these were features that buyers quizzed sales reps about, and dismissed boats if they didn't come up to scratch, then I am sure yacht designers would start to pay attention to these items.

SWL
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Old 16-11-2017, 05:54   #1648
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Bestevaer 49ST

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good one, Angela! IMO she who cuts the checks gets to allocate use of space. One of my idle dreams is that every yacht designer should have to live aboard and make a passage in their designs before they can be sold... and change the oil and the impeller, too!

Idle dream, as i said...

Jim


Years ago I toured the Mercedes factory in Germany. I learned that any design Engineer they had first did an apprenticeship on the factory floor and service center.
Now I havenít had a Mercedes in decades so Iím sure things are different, but the older cars you could tell it. The brake calipers were held on by quick release pins, compress the Pistons with a screwdriver, pull one pin, rotate the caliper up, pull the old pads, slip the new ones in, replace pin. One minute pad change.
The radio came out the front of the dash, with no other disassembly of the dash, the speakers on the rear deck were set into the deck, not mounted under it via the trunk. You could tell the things were meant to be worked on.
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Old 16-11-2017, 06:10   #1649
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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The consumer primarily drives design . Once a budget and rough boat length are decided on, what seems to clinch sales of new boats is an exterior with beautiful lines the most interior space per foot of boat length. The "wow" factor rules, but it comes at a price. Other design features suffer.

Interior and exterior storage and access to the hull and to equipment and other items such as hoses and inside of fuel and water tanks that will need servicing/repair/replacement/cleaning are also either not considered by the consumer or take a back seat.

Same goes with things like requesting details of hull layup and rudder strength and support, and details of keel design and attachment, and use of brass below water through hull fittings. I could go on and on .

If these were features that buyers quizzed sales reps about, and dismissed boats if they didn't come up to scratch, then I am sure yacht designers would start to pay attention to these items.

SWL


Consumer drives design, Iíll agree there.
However the consumer does not care about being able to service the Boat, thatís dirty work, you hire people to do dirty work, your too important. They donít mow their lawns, wash their cars much less service them, heck they wonít even unclog a drain.
What is most important is the biggest, most impressive Boat with lots of room to entertain and impress friends, and quality doesnít matter.
Iíve looked at new build 5,000 sq ft ďestateĒ homes. What was common in all of them was hollow core doors, cheap frameless windows, inadequate HVAC systems, wiring that just barely met code, concrete slab floors, very poorly framed, plumbing ran in the concrete floor. One water heater. Cheap roof, inadequate roof overhang. List goes on and on, cheap builds just BIG.
However the counter tops were granite on top of cheap mass produced particle board cabinets, the fridge was a sub zero, the stove a Viking, the ďblingĒ was there.
Average buyer? Mid 50ís mortgaged to the hilt and buying on a 30 yr loan.

The few times I have been in a Lagoon or similar Boat, I see those houses. Average buyer? Mid 50ís, mortgaged to the hilt, with a long term loan.
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Old 16-11-2017, 09:18   #1650
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Re: Bestevaer 49ST

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
The consumer primarily drives design . Once a budget and rough boat length are decided on, what seems to clinch sales of new boats is an exterior with beautiful lines the most interior space per foot of boat length. The "wow" factor rules, but it comes at a price. Other design features suffer.

SWL
So true!.... and it takes a very focussed client when building a custom yacht, to do their homework and feasibility studies, BEFORE going to contract.
Otherwise they get the architects vision, other than their own.

Form following Function, is really what the client wants, but the designers see only "flowing lines" and symmetry with which to enhance their reputation.
It takes a very strong client to insist on both.
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